Drawing Title Blocks - Control / Number them? Engineering Drawing Practices Y14.100M

To Start we don't normally design anything other than minor internal changes, and we usually only supply info to customers, we don't design for them.

Our Internal drawings (hand or AutoCAD), are used to make part or assembly drawings for use in the production area. They don't get updated often except for errors or lack of drawings (plenty of those).

I've never noticed any of our customer's title blocks having any type of control number or revision information on them. Yet some of their title blocks HAVE changed APPEARANCE over the years.

Should we / do we need to issue control numbers/revisions to our title blocks?

When I make quick hand drawings, I'd print out a blank page from within AutoCAD that has the title block on it.

I'm only asking because I just wrote a basic Work Instruction on Creating and Updating Internal Drawings, and I was not sure if we should bother attempting to control the title blocks. I created them about 4 years ago and have not updated them in about 3...

Thanks Bob_M

ADDED:
No this is not covered in our Document Control Procedure (which I have not gotten around to updating yet). We are updating to ISO9k2k from ISO9001:1994, but our procedures need alot of work for internal reasons not just ISO.

Re: Drawing Title Blocks... Control and Number them? ISO9k2k

Okay, let's see what the standard says:

You need to:
1) approve documents
2) review/update
3) ensure that changes and current revision levels are identified
4) ensure documents are where needed
5) ensure that documents are legible and readily identifiable


So, does your system do those things? If I can "readily identify" the drawing, does it need a control number?
Do you identify the print by date, so folks know if it is current?

They don't get updated often except for errors or lack of drawings (plenty of those).

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If I am using one of these documents, how would I know it was updated or not? Has lack of revisions caused ANY problems in the past?

No this is not covered in our Document Control Procedure

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All of this really needs to be in the procedure.

Hope this at least gives you something to think about.

db,

Maybe I was not clear enough.

Our doc control procedure is OK for 1994 standard, but for 2000 and our need it definately needs some fine tuning.

Our drawings are controlled, revised, and approved as needed.

But does the Drawing Title block (I guess you could call it a blank form with our logo and room for DRAWING specific info).

Granted in the strictest terms the title block could/should be controlled,

But is anyone else assigning control number and revisions to BLANK company title blocks for drawings?

I've yet to see one from our QS customers. But I was curious.

Bob_M said:

Granted in the strictest terms the title block could/should be controlled,

But is anyone else assigning control number and revisions to BLANK company title blocks for drawings?

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IMHO, a title block is a title block, they all have the same basic info, Drawing ID (title or job number, whatever) a place to put in the rev delta and explanation.

Typically for CAD drawings you take your print and make sure your delta level matches what is on the system. For vellums/mylars, you've continually added your revs to the original, thereby creating your master copy that you can compare the print to. There is your control, right? If we/you decide today to change your logo on your title block on the CAD. but you haven't changed/reprinted every drawing to incorporate it, you have not made a revision to the drawing, you have only excercised corporate responsibility by saving a tree or two.

I worked in engineering before going into QA, and engineering drawings were the least apt to cause a problem with uncontrolled documents. I have to say that of all the corporate types, accountants and engineers are the most anal.

Just jokin' with ya, don't take offense!:truce:

Sorry, Bob, I did misunderstand your question. It was not as scary as I had orignially thought. I agree with most of SteelMaiden's comments, although I disagree with her savage attack on engineers. Okay, maybe not so savage.

We must apply a certain level of reasonableness here. Is it reasonable to control absolute every form and data block? Probably not. We must be careful here....is your dayplanner on the master list? If you NEED to control the information on the data block, then set up controls that protect that information. If you don't NEED to the information, then don't worry about it.

db said:

Sorry, Bob, I did misunderstand your question. It was not as scary as I had orignially thought. I agree with most of SteelMaiden's comments, although I disagree with her savage attack on engineers. Okay, maybe not so savage.

We must apply a certain level of reasonableness here. Is it reasonable to control absolute every form and data block? Probably not. We must be careful here....is your dayplanner on the master list? If you NEED to control the information on the data block, then set up controls that protect that information. If you don't NEED to the information, then don't worry about it.

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I guess that makes me an anal Quality Manager, since I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and I'm also the company's ONLY Engineer.

Well both of you gave me the answer I felt was true and hoped was true.

Its really the Drawing that needs control, not the title block or "background". (We're simple here, AutoCAD and plain paper A size or 11x17 print outs)

There is an Engineering Drawing Standard, available from the American Society of Mechanical Engineers
Engineering Drawing PracticesY14.100M-2000
describes everything you need.

Wes Bucey said:

There is an Engineering Drawing Standard, available from the American Society of Mechanical Engineers
Engineering Drawing PracticesY14.100M-2000
describes everything you need.

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I probably should have joined that society a long time ago (B.S. Mechanical Engineering). But at the moment, it would not be good investment...
I don't make many drawings at the moment, but I was just curious about "controlling" the title block format. I have changed it a few times since I first learned AutoCAD at my current job. (Overall structure is constant, I just tweaked it to my needs).

Standard is available to everyone, member or not, for a fee [of course] Almost all Standards are! Membership usually only merits a small discount.

My suggestion to many whose posts I have read during the past 24 hours is that it is nonproductive to create a system or process from scratch if there is an available standard or process to follow.

Two benefits:
1) It's usually a lot cheaper than the hours spent agonizing over details, format, and content.
2) Customers, regulators, and new employees don't have to be trained to follow it (customers and regulators when they audit; employees when they implement.)

Think how much easier it is to audit a supplier if his QMS follows the general plan of ISO9K2K.

Folks no longer create a spreadsheet or database from scratch (hard code)- they start with an engine like Access or Oracle or Excel. Same goes for Word Processing Software. (Are you ready to write all your documents in Basic?) Note that most software for drawing or writing documents is based on those Standards and contains features for easy implementation.

but what about..

Wes Bucey said:

Two benefits:
1) It's usually a lot cheaper than the hours spent agonizing over details, format, and content.
2) Customers, regulators, and new employees don't have to be trained to follow it (customers and regulators when they audit; employees when they implement.)

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Wes....if only it was so.

We are a sheet metal job shop. We only create in-house "sketches" to aid our manufacturing process. We use customer drawings 99.9% of the time. And I have yet to see consistency. Each customers format varies slightly....top that off with some HORRIBLE drafting techniques can make life difficult, at best.

Carol