ISO 9001 Clause 5.1 d - Management Review - Who should participate?

G

GAVINSM

We are undertaking our first Management Review in a couple of weeks that will include the Two Directors that have been assigned the roles of Quality Directors.

I sit underneath them as the Quality Manager/Management Rep, in terms of our company grade structure I don't sit in the Top Management level.

The company has four offices, employs approx 58 people and we are a service company.

My question is given that I am not part of Top Management of the company should I be part of the review even though I am the Quality Manager?
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
We are undertaking our first Management Review in a couple of weeks that will include the Two Directors that have been assigned the roles of Quality Directors.

I sit underneath them as the Quality Manager/Management Rep, in terms of our company grade structure I don't sit in the Top Management level.

The company has four offices, employs approx 58 people and we are a service company.

My question is given that I am not part of Top Management of the company should I be part of the review even though I am the Quality Manager?

First, as far as "top management" is concerned, who in your company has the authority to make a decision to scrap your ISO 9001 registration entirely? If the two directors you mention don't have that authority, they're not "top management." "Top" refers to the highest point in the tree. The top manager may delegate some responsibility for gathering information, but if the effectiveness of the system isn't being reviewed from the top position, you have a problem.

As far as who participates is concerned, there is no requirement for holding a management review meeting, but if one is held, you can pull people in off the street if you want to. There's certainly no problem with a quality manager attending participating in management review.
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
We are undertaking our first Management Review in a couple of weeks that will include the Two Directors that have been assigned the roles of Quality Directors.

I sit underneath them as the Quality Manager/Management Rep, in terms of our company grade structure I don't sit in the Top Management level.

The company has four offices, employs approx 58 people and we are a service company.

My question is given that I am not part of Top Management of the company should I be part of the review even though I am the Quality Manager?


ISO 9001 tells you the requirements (what), but the "how" is left to the organizations.
Said that, in the management review top mgmt should partecipate with the process owners.
For example, HR mgr, Finance Mgr, Purchasing Mgr, Operations Mgr, Service and Infrastructure Mgr, Quality Mgr, Site Mgr as well as the Quality representative apppointed by Top mgmt ( 5.5.2. point B)
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Leader
Super Moderator
We are undertaking our first Management Review in a couple of weeks that will include the Two Directors that have been assigned the roles of Quality Directors.

I sit underneath them as the Quality Manager/Management Rep, in terms of our company grade structure I don't sit in the Top Management level.

The company has four offices, employs approx 58 people and we are a service company.

My question is given that I am not part of Top Management of the company should I be part of the review even though I am the Quality Manager?

"Top Management" as far as the QMS is concerned is often documented somehere in the QMS - quality manual, a policy, org chart, whatever. It's not required, but it's a good practice.
That being said - if you do an MR meeting, there's no reason you can't attend based on the standard. As Jim says, you can invite people off the street as far as the standard is concerned.

Here's an example: My last job had 4 "Senior Managers" and they were called out in the Quality Manual as "Top Management". I was not one of them, but as QA Director I ran the MR meetings with the four of them.
Ideally I would have included all department heads, but that never came about.
 

somashekar

Leader
Admin
We are undertaking our first Management Review in a couple of weeks that will include the Two Directors that have been assigned the roles of Quality Directors.

I sit underneath them as the Quality Manager/Management Rep, in terms of our company grade structure I don't sit in the Top Management level.

The company has four offices, employs approx 58 people and we are a service company.

My question is given that I am not part of Top Management of the company should I be part of the review even though I am the Quality Manager?
There are two aspects in the Management review
1. Inputs
2. Outputs
Inputs can be given by the various process owners and the MR + any other resource persons within the various processes.
Outputs can be given by the person (s) who has/have executive responsibility and authority for the operations of the quality management system which includes powers to make organizational changes within and approve expenditure for resources.
It need not be an exclusive periodic meeting. Rather an account of various inputs and outputs well summerised can form the management review records
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
We are undertaking our first Management Review in a couple of weeks that will include the Two Directors that have been assigned the roles of Quality Directors.

I sit underneath them as the Quality Manager/Management Rep, in terms of our company grade structure I don't sit in the Top Management level.

The company has four offices, employs approx 58 people and we are a service company.

My question is given that I am not part of Top Management of the company should I be part of the review even though I am the Quality Manager?

GAVINSM,

The organization's system should be helping its users to do good work.

Leaders without quality in their job title should attend to review your report on the performance of the leader's management system:

  • What the system does well
  • What the system does less than well
  • Recommendations for leaders to improve B above

From this high level meeting you should see a report to the employees (see back end of 5.5.3) stating:

  • What the system does well
  • What the system does less than well
  • What top management is doing to improve the system

...so the system improvement projects involve some users in helping its wider users do even better work.

For this delightful state of affairs (where everyone knows what the system does for them - again see 5.5.3) you need someone with investment authority on the system peformance review team.

John
 

Randy

Super Moderator
Ya wanna know who should attend without all the fluff and hoopty-do?

Whoever in your organization has ultimate control of the steering wheel and checkbook, that's who.


For example.......


Unless they can say, without having to ask permission, which direction the whole organization is going to take, and unless thay can control and allocate the resources to go in the direction chosen, again without having to ask persmission, they are not Top Management.

If ya gotta ask, you ain't the boss!:nope:
 
J

JaneB

Whoever in your organization has ultimate control of the steering wheel and checkbook, that's who.
Sure... but in answer to the original poster's question about whether they can/should attend, my answer would be Yes sure, IF they want you there, but No if they don't.

As Randy so eloquently points out, they is top management, and they makes the decisions.
 
J

JaneB

As far as who participates is concerned, there is no requirement for holding a management review meeting, but if one is held, you can pull people in off the street if you want to. There's certainly no problem with a quality manager attending participating in management review.
Agree.

Though I've never found people off the street to be particularly useful, meself :notme:
 

AndyN

Moved On
We are undertaking our first Management Review in a couple of weeks that will include the Two Directors that have been assigned the roles of Quality Directors.

I sit underneath them as the Quality Manager/Management Rep, in terms of our company grade structure I don't sit in the Top Management level.

The company has four offices, employs approx 58 people and we are a service company.

My question is given that I am not part of Top Management of the company should I be part of the review even though I am the Quality Manager?

As has been said, a meeting to review the qms isn't required. However, if you do it this way, apart from setting the agenda, timing the meeting etc be sure that the process owners are there to tell everyone about how their processes are performing to objectives and what they are doing about it!

As QM/MR, your job is not to do all the talking/presenting. I'd suggest you spend some time with the most senior manager who will be present and school them in the way the meeting should be run and expected outcomes. Perhaps, coach him/her on what questions to ask about poor performance of those processes etc and actions necessary.

If you are responsible for internal audits, you are there to report on whether the process was being performed to the system, so the results can be 'believed' - validation, in other words...
 
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