Audit Notification - Is it a obligation to notify people or just good practice

S

selena15

Hi all
how are you doing? hope fine, long time ago...:)
I have a question relating to audit notification, is it a obligation to notify people or just common good practice.
thank you in advance
sel
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
Re: Audit notification

Hi all
how are you doing? hope fine, long time ago...:)
I have a question relating to audit notification, is it a obligation to notify people or just common good practice.
thank you in advance
sel

sel,

Unless I receive notification of audit I may not be available.

You must notify in order to conduct the audit investigation.

Preferably include a copy of the audit plan with the audit objective and criteria with the notification. You may also inform the auditee under whose authority you are auditing.

It is also common courtesy to ask and not to impose yourself as an auditor.

John
 

somashekar

Leader
Admin
Re: Audit notification

Hi all
how are you doing? hope fine, long time ago...:)
I have a question relating to audit notification, is it a obligation to notify people or just common good practice.
thank you in advance
sel
Hi Selena.. nice to see you again.
An audit program shall be planned, ... ... ... so it goes in the ISO standards.
Means done in advance.
So notification is an output of planning., and a good practice too.
You are the best person to decide upon the notification time.
 
S

selena15

Hi guys
yes happy to be here again Somashekar :)
indeed, i knew that but i would like support to that based on iso requirement or any others regulations or common practices.
sel
 
Last edited by a moderator:

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
Hi guys
yes happy to be here again Somashekar :)
indeed, i knew that but i would like support to that based on iso requirement or any others regulations or common practices.
sel

Glad to hearing from you again Selena :)
Audit activity follows a sort of PDCA: plan first of all , and in that case resouces shall be assigned to support audit. Said that, it is a consequence that the notification is a means to pursue this. In the notification there are also audit criteria, reference to standard, time frame and location. "Surprise audit" are only due in the law compliance and not in management systems.:bigwave:
 
S

silentrunning

Craig Cochran says in his book ISO in Plain English, ?Audits are never a surprise. They are planned in advance, with personnel knowing exactly what process will be covered and what requirements will apply.?
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
You don't say what standard you're dealing with, but in ISO 9001:2008 and ISO/TS 16949 there are no requirements for notification.

Nonetheless, audits are done in accordance with an annual schedule. The schedule should be made available to everyone who needs to know about it. If people are notified when the schedule becomes available, they should already know when they will be audited, and at that point it should just be a matter of pre-audit notification of specifics.
 

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
May I answer with another question? Why wouldn't you notify them?

I can't answer for Selena, but I have had similar discussions in the past.

There are some that feel the provision of "advanced noticed" is providing an unfair advantage to the area being assessed - time to prepare people, hide "issues", make the place all pretty. It's comparable to how we like family and friends to (usually) give us a day or two of notice before they come over so that we can tidy up the house. But this is typically the reason I hear in favour of NOT providing advanced notification.

I do appreciate this perspective. An auditor who doesn't dig deep or ask the right questions or listen/observe may see only 'fluff' when advanced notice is given, instead of seeing how the area truly performs on a daily basis.

That being said, I usually counter the persepctive with the "list" supporting advanced notice:
  • Ensures availability of the RIGHT personnel (this includes designates as needed)
  • Helps to keep the stress down - people aren't distracted by wondering when they'll be hit and on what
  • If 'advanced notice' provided all of this opportunity to prepare and plan on the part of the auditee, we wouldn't have findings and the reality is that, at least internally, we usually walk away with some pretty good stuff to work on
  • Workload balance - Don't want to pop in for an audit on the day that customer happens to be in there or a safety inspection.
  • Good manners
  • Auditor safety - the time to clean-up helps to keep me safe (and let's face it, it's all about me)
  • Facilitates the audit process by ensuring access to the right information that may be needed to support a statement made during the audit
  • Food - If advance notice is not given, how will they know to order lunch for me?
  • Potential to trigger corrections, corrective action, improvement - With sufficient notice, an area may realize that there are some activities to work on and they may start working on them before the assessment; advance notice is almost a nudge to improve

After presenting this list, I usually wait a moment and then ask "So, which one will give you/us/the organization more value? Notifying them or not notifying them?"

I will say this...I can be passive aggressive when it comes to making a point. There was one time where the decision was made to not provide advanced notice. One very vocal leader triumphed over the quiet majority. Fair enough. The decision was made by those higher up than I. I'll work with it. First area to be assessed? The area run by the very local leader.

First thing said to me when I showed up..."What do you mean you're doing an audit today? On what? Why didn't you let us know?" :cool: From that point on, advance notice was the requirement. :rolleyes:
 
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