Qualification System of Internal Auditors is not Effective

Hi Everybody,

I would like to ask You for help, regarding one non conformity of an TS16949 recert audit.
The deviaiton was noted: The qualification system of internal auditors is not effective.

The root cause was, we do not have VDA6.3 and VDA6.5 internal auditor certificates by our auditors.
(the costs for the trainings has not been validated by the director...)

Our analysis has been rejected from the auditor, because we do not have determined systemic corrective actions.

Could You help me regarding systemic corrective actions for the issue if the management don't validate training costs?

Or should we take an other direction by the root cause analysis (5Why)?

Thanks in advance!
Thomas

Hi Tom and welcome. Can you give us the full NC statement? There must have been something in addition to the statement about not being effective.

Hi Andy,

the "objective evidence" for it was:

"The qualification system of internal auditors is not effective
TS Ref: 8.2.2.5 Internal auditor qualification, CSR VW
Requirement: ?The organization shall have internal auditors who are qualified to audit the requirements of this Technical Specification( see 6.2.2.2).?
QMS ref: Quality Management process
Objective evidence:
There are no qualified internal VDA 6.3 and 6.5 auditors, and no internal manufacturing process and product audits were executed according to VDA rules.
Due to the fact that detailed manufacturing process audits and product audits are planned and executed, this issue was handled as a single problem in the system without direct effect on product quality, this as minor nc."

At the moment I just see a proposal to make an other analysis, without the issue of the costs

Thanks a lot!

Your auditor has a bad case of "mission creep" - there's no such requirement for VDA to be considered. Reject the minor back to the auditor's management, please because this auditor will make others suffer the same way.

Actually, I am dealing with a similar situation, not with VW, but a different German customer. I just came from a USA client whose German customer was imposing a VDA 6.3 audit on them, with significant misunderstandings and findings.

There seems to be a recent initiative where German based companies apply VDA 6.3 auditing methods to their supply chains. NOT a TS requirement, but it is apparently a CSR (Customer Specific Requirement).

So, the finding may stand, but not against Cl 8.2.2, Internal Auditing, per se. Rather, against Customer Requirements.

My complaint is, the German customers should announce their intentions, and give time for suppliers to review and implement this in an orderly manner. Coming in and auditing them to something they were not prepared for is wrong and counterproductive. You may as well audit them in Polish to a Russian Nuclear Standard. If I were a supplier I probably would probably be tempted to put that customer auditor into a box and swear he never showed up...

This is NOT a "mutually beneficial supply chain relationship" that ISO Management Principle #8 requires (ref. ISO 9000). Is this really how we want to treat suppliers?

Hello Thomas,
does your contract with the customer using VDA methodology requires you to comply with VDA 6.3 and 6.5? I experienced a contract with German customer where it was explicitedly written that we, the supplier, must comply only with specific books, audits accordingg to VDA were excluded. If such is your situation, you can dismiss this NC.