The Elsmar Cove Forum How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R
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#1
11th May 2006, 09:38 PM
 fl350z Inactive Registered Visitor   Registration Date: Jan 2006 Location: sgp Posts: 6 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Karma Power: 35 Karma: 10
How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

hi all.. have smtn to ask u all..

how to determine the values k1, k2,k3?
is there a standard value for them?

how to determine which one to use in a gr&r study? based on number of operators? number of trials?

Thanks..

#2
12th May 2006, 08:38 AM
 antoine.dias Involved in Discussions   Registration Date: Feb 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 510 Thanks Given to Others: 299 Thanked 187 Times in 124 Posts Karma Power: 106 Karma: 2263
k1,k2,k3

You can take the examples given in the MSA manual.

k1 is the constant in relation to the number of trials in the study.
2 trials 0,8862
3 trials 0,5908

k2 is the constant in relation to the number of appraisers in the study.
2 operators 0,7071
3 operators 0,5231

k3 is the constant in relation to the number of parts in the study.
Parts K3
2 0,7071
3 0,5231
4 0,4467
5 0,4030
6 0,3742
7 0,3534
8 0,3375
9 0,3249
10 0,3146

For further details, See MSA manual.

Best regards,

Antoine
 Thanks to antoine.dias for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
#3
17th January 2007, 08:35 AM
 cplusplus - 2009 E-Mails Invalid or Rejected by Recipient System   Registration Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Karma Power: 0 Karma: 10
Re: k1,k2,k3

Hi,
When I review some of the excel sheets, softwares, and AIAG MSA, i found 2 kind of K1, K2, K3 values.
Eg:
According to several softwares and excel files (minitab, spc for excel) k1 is:

Trials K1
2 4.5600
3 3.0500

According to the MSA handbook (3rd edition, page 114), and some softwares K1 is

Trials K1
2 0,8862
3 0,5908

Do you happen to know the reason of that???

Thank you,
#4
18th January 2007, 05:07 AM
 antoine.dias Involved in Discussions   Registration Date: Feb 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 510 Thanks Given to Others: 299 Thanked 187 Times in 124 Posts Karma Power: 106 Karma: 2263
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

Welcome to the cove.

The difference you have found is due to the different approach in the MSA manual ( difference between version 2 and version 3 of the MSA manual )

Hope this helps,

Antoine
#5
12th December 2007, 03:12 AM
 Alex.G Inactive Registered Visitor   Registration Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 9 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Karma Power: 28 Karma: 10
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

I'm ok with the answer but what is the difference between the old system and the new? because the constant value are really differente and change considerably the result?

Anyone have an answer to this?
#6
12th December 2007, 04:42 AM
 martin elliott Involved - Posts   Registration Date: Jul 2003 Location: England Posts: 68 Thanks Given to Others: 8 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Karma Power: 52 Karma: 185
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

Quote:
 In Reply to Parent Post by Alex.G I'm ok with the answer but what is the difference between the old system and the new? because the constant value are really differente and change considerably the result? Anyone have an answer to this?
The answer lies in the different equations used in Version 2 and Version 3.

You cannot just simply substitute the Version 3 K values in an Version 2 worksheet.

__________________

Martin in England
Getting Older but no Wiser
#7
12th December 2007, 05:29 AM
 Alex.G Inactive Registered Visitor   Registration Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 9 Thanks Given to Others: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Karma Power: 28 Karma: 10
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

I checked the equation and they are exactly the same in the 2 cases??
Can u tell me which equation exactly is different ?
#8
12th December 2007, 05:47 AM
 harry Super Moderator   Registration Date: Sep 2005 Location: Johore/Malaysia Posts: 6,277 Thanks Given to Others: 1,501 Thanked 2,978 Times in 2,066 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Karma Power: 701 Karma: 18830
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

Have a look at discussions in this thread: Values and results to check Validation of Gauge (Gage) R&R program and Warning as to MSA 3rd edition worksheets

 The Elsmar Cove Forum How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

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