Auditing the Task (Process) Elements - Visual Map Attached

W

WALLACE

Auditing the task (process) elements

Attached is a Visual Map titled "Auditing the task (Process) elements".
This has been taken from a book called Management audits by Allan J Sayle. I have used this method in the past. I've noted the word "compliance is used in relation to the older ISO standard, this could easily be changes to another appropriate word.
Usefull to anyone?
Wallace.
 

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V

vitorino

Hi, :)

My name is José Victorino. I´m a engineer working in a Brazilian Automotive Supplier Factory.
Newly i´m get involved in a taskforce that is preparing our company for a ISO TS 16949 certification assessment process, and we have been discussing hardly about quality audits issues. :bonk:
I'd like to share with you one doubt and our considerations about it. It's about the topics 8.2.2.1 until 8.2.2.3 in the norm. I´d like to know your opinion about it.
Are we doing the right thing? :confused:

Thanks a lot, :thanx:


1 - We know that in ISO TS 2 there are three kinds of audit events: System Audit , Manufactoring Process Audit and Product Audit. The great issue is:
Which cases We have to use each one?

Now, we are understanding this way:

System audit - It´s used for verifying compliance with the norm, customer´s specific requirements and internal requirements. In this case we have to verify the documentation and system structure against the norm.
We use the turtles, norms, internal and external documents.
It´s not necessary to verify all processes at the same time, but we need to verify all the requirements.

Manufactoring Process Audit - in this case we are considering that we have to verify the actual parameters and targets related only with the performance of each fase of manufactoring process (capability, productivity, maintenance, cost). Here we are not verifying the enterely process at the same time, but choosing some fases of manufactoring process during the year.


Product Audit - in this case we are verifying just customer specific requirements like dimensions, functionability, packaging and labeling.
 
S

Sam

Welcome to the cove, Jose.
It sounds like you have the basic understanding of the various TS2 audit requirements;
System audit - evidence of compliance to all TS2 requirements,
Mfg. process audit - inputs, activities, outputs (who, what, where, how),
Product audit - dimensions, testing, labeling and packaging.
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Leader
Admin
Comment on System Audits:

Are system audits the sum of x number of process/subsystem audits performed??

I'm aware that most organizations break auditing down into process/department/area audits, but is this good practice?

Thought?

Kevin
 
Kevin Mader said:
I'm aware that most organizations break auditing down into process/department/area audits, but is this good practice?
Very good question... Is it? As soon as we start breaking anything down into smaller parts, we always run the risk of losing the overall picture - how it all connects... or not. Yet, this is what most of us are forced to do for a number of practical reasons.

What I think it really boils down to is if the audit plan was sound to begin with. As always, proper planning is the best way to avoid mishaps. Not that it will prevent them all, but one must try...

Besides, when we seek answers they will always depend on the questions asked. So what do we want to know when we audit? Personally, I am above all loking for improvement potential.

/Claes
 
S

Sam

Kevin Mader said:
Comment on System Audits:

Are system audits the sum of x number of process/subsystem audits performed??

I'm aware that most organizations break auditing down into process/department/area audits, but is this good practice?

Thought?

Kevin

IMO system audits are not the sum of x number of process/subsystem audits. Randomly auditing processes does not ensure that the system in its entirety meets the requirements for suitability, adequacy and effectiveness.
From the TS2 viewpoint I see the system defined by a single process definition that contains or makes reference to all of the requirements in the specification and to other requirements established by the organization including interactions and references to other processes. The system audit, therefore, would be a single documented audit verfiying and validating compliance to this process.
 
B

Bigfoot

Kevin Mader said:
Comment on System Audits:

Are system audits the sum of x number of process/subsystem audits performed??
FWIW:
System Audits are supposed to confirm the function of the "System" by / through the functioning of the interfaces & interactions that occur within it.


I'm aware that most organizations break auditing down into process/department/area audits, but is this good practice?
JMHO:
No it isn't a good practice. I can see where in an attempt to utilize the limited resources we all seem to have in the most efficient manner, breaking the auditing down into segments allows us to take smaller bites of time. The slippery slope of this is that it can promote the element based mentality that haunts many of us as we try to untrain poorly trained / skilled auditors who have been used to functioning in this manner.
:eek:


Thought?

Kevin

My two cents worth on the subject. :frust:
 
W

WALLACE

Re: Auditing the task (process) elements

System Audits are supposed to confirm the function of the "System" by / through the functioning of the interfaces & interactions that occur within it.
Exactly bigfoot, I agree.
It seems like you have just made a statement regarding systems thinking. My aproach is to encourage a systems thinking mindset, if you accomplish this, you'll achieve a great degree of system and process audit success. ;)

Is there a generic template that can be used to perform a system or process audit. Should we attempt to develop one at the Cove.
I'm game.
Wallace.
 
R

rexlee

Re: Auditing the task (process) elements

Sam said:
...
Mfg. process audit - inputs, activities, outputs (who, what, where, how)..
Dear Sam,

Just clarify with you. Mfg. process audit is just focusing on Mfg processes, I mean focusing on process control plan compliance, not all processes. Am I right?
 
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