Difference between Record and Quality Record

Dear Experts,‎

Need your clarification ‎

‎1- What is the difference between Record and Quality Record? ‎

‎2- Our New Management would like to completely change the current Quality Management ‎System ISO 9001:2000 and reduce the number of quality records that approved by the old ‎management?‎

Example – in purchasing we have quality records such as Purchase Request and Purchase ‎Order.‎

Now we would like to control only Purchase order, but we have more stocks of the purchase ‎requests which have quality record number on them.‎

If our management approves the Purchase order as a quality record, what about the purchase ‎request? How we will indicate it in the manual? ‎
‎ ‎
Thanks ‎

The term 'quality record' does not appear in ISO 9001 anymore - it used to in earlier versions but no longer.

Records are the evidence we keep of having done something - whether they are specified by our QMS or whatever.

There are any number of times where ISO 9001 states that records must be retained, other than that, it is up to you to decide which records you keep.

Colpart said:

The term 'quality record' does not appear in ISO 9001 anymore - it used to in earlier versions but no longer.

Records are the evidence we keep of having done something - whether they are specified by our QMS or whatever.

There are any number of times where ISO 9001 states that records must be retained, other than that, it is up to you to decide which records you keep.

Click to expand...

Just to add some information to this post:

A record is defined as a form that has information in-bedded/written in it. Once a blank form gets information added to it, it becomes a Record, in my opinion.

Coury Ferguson said:

Just to add some information to this post:

A record is defined as a form that has information in-bedded/written in it. Once a blank form gets information added to it, it becomes a Record, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

I mostly agree but something like a delivery note is not one of your forms but is normally kept as a record.

There is some definitions here - AS9100 Quality Record - 4.2.4 simply states Records, not Quality Records

DAWELAH said:

Example – in purchasing we have quality records such as Purchase Request and Purchase ‎Order.‎

Now we would like to control only Purchase order, but we have more stocks of the purchase ‎requests which have quality record number on them.‎

If our management approves the Purchase order as a quality record, what about the purchase ‎request? How we will indicate it in the manual? ‎

Click to expand...

Purchase request - asking the purchasing department to bring in supplies/service/etc.

Purchase order - the actual transaction document.

I think controlling the request as a record is overkill and your purchase order should serve to fulfill the requirements of the standard.

I would not even address the request form in your manual.

Coury Ferguson said:

Just to add some information to this post:

A record is defined as a form that has information in-bedded/written in it. Once a blank form gets information added to it, it becomes a Record, in my opinion.

Click to expand...

This is not strictly true. The RECORD is the data about an accomplished activity (including a completed document or form), regardless of the media (paper, electronic, chiseled in stone, etc.) In fact, the bulk of records throughout history are not "filled-in forms," but are either lists of data (think of a counter on a machine, recording the number of strokes) or written [or oral, in the case of societies BEFORE writing, or gleaned from other evidence - artwork, broken pottery,tombs, fossils, etc.] narratives of what transpired (think of history books as records.)

ON TOPIC:
Any organization has the right to maintain records of its choosing (or to NOT keep records), but that right is modified by statutory or regulatory requirements, customer contracts, and other outside influences.

The primary purpose of most records in a business organization is to fulfill those outside requirements, but many organizations keep other records to use as a benchmark to note progression or regression of the economic fortunes of the business and to use in evaluating future courses of action based on how past actions turned out.

Therefore, one of the reasons an organization might keep purchase requests is to compare with other requests to determine if future requests might be consolidated for better pricing. Other reasons might be to compare response time, etc. Strictly speaking, this IS strictly an internal reason and I know of no outside requirements to maintain such records.

DAWELAH said:

Dear Experts,‎

Need your clarification ‎

‎1- What is the difference between Record and Quality Record? ‎

‎2- Our New Management would like to completely change the current Quality Management ‎System ISO 9001:2000 and reduce the number of quality records that approved by the old ‎management?‎

Example – in purchasing we have quality records such as Purchase Request and Purchase ‎Order.‎

Now we would like to control only Purchase order, but we have more stocks of the purchase ‎requests which have quality record number on them.‎

If our management approves the Purchase order as a quality record, what about the purchase ‎request? How we will indicate it in the manual? ‎

Click to expand...

It sounds as though your new management is on the right track with wanting to change the system and reduce the number of documents. If you have one of those very bureaucratic systems that are absolutely full of forms with Quality Record plastered all over the place, and then lists of Quality Records... etc etc.

Focus on what records are required (and pay attention to what Wes said, because he's absolutely right on in his description of what a record is - records are NOT only forms!!) and work out what control they need.

Your question that makes reference to 'the manual' I can't even begin to answer, because I really don't know what you are referring to. You'd have to provide clearer information to explain what your question actually means.

How would your management expect to prove that you have met the requirements of 7.4.1 & 7.4.2 without a record?


7.4.1 Purchasing process
The organization shall ensure that purchased product conforms to specified purchase requirements.

7.4.2 Purchasing information
Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where appropriate
a) requirements for approval of product, procedures, processes and equipment,
b) requirements for qualification of personnel, and
c) quality management system requirements.

The organization shall ensure the adequacy of specified purchase requirements prior to their communication to the supplier.

Here are some definitions that are not negotiable....

ISO 9001:2000
4.2.4 Control of records
Records shall be established and maintained to provide evidence of conformity to requirements and of the effective operation of the quality management system.

ISO 9000:2005
3.7.6 record
document (3.7.2) stating results achieved or providing evidence of activities performed

3.7.2 document
information (3.7.1) and its supporting medium

3.7.1 information
meaningful data

Also not negotiable are the references in the ISO 9001:2000 where it states you need to retain records. Look for every place in the standard where you see (4.2.4). At a minimum you need to keep those records.