Training Requirement - Required sign-off after being retrained

Is it stated somewhere that when an Originator and/or Approver when signing a Document Approval Form is required to sign-off being retrained on their individual training log?

This appears to be a redundant process. Would stating in the training procedure be appropriate that "if the Originator and/or Approver sign off" without changes by anyone signify as being trained. This could save a step or two in training and re-training process.

How does anyone else handle the same situation?

Thank you,

Re: Training Requirement

aostrom said:

Is it stated somewhere that when an Originator and/or Approver when signing a Document Approval Form is required to sign-off being retrained on their individual training log?

This appears to be a redundant process. Would stating in the training procedure be appropriate that "if the Originator and/or Approver sign off" without changes by anyone signify as being trained. This could save a step or two in training and re-training process.

How does anyone else handle the same situation?

Thank you,

Click to expand...

The standard does not get into details as specific as what you are looking for, however, having had a similar discussion with some colleagues, let me tell you what I told them.

When I asked why the Supervisor of the area was not on the training matrix, showing that he too needed to be aware of (i.e., trained on) the documents listed, I was informed "Well, I wrote 'em, so why do I need to be trained?"

My response is quite simple.

"What if you are hit by a bus or leave the company? Someone comes in to replace you. How does that person know what s/he needs to know or be trained on? How does s/he know what documents exist to help him/her learn the job?"

Yes, the idea of actually training the person can be redundant with the belief that in the approval process, s/he actually read and understood the document. Perhaps you could develop a "grandfathering" protocol. Not only would this apply to the approver, but as well to all employees when a document is modified and approved with simple changes such as a grammar.

Re: Training Requirement

aostrom said:

Is it stated somewhere that when an Originator and/or Approver when signing a Document Approval Form is required to sign-off being retrained on their individual training log?

This appears to be a redundant process. Would stating in the training procedure be appropriate that "if the Originator and/or Approver sign off" without changes by anyone signify as being trained. This could save a step or two in training and re-training process.

How does anyone else handle the same situation?

Thank you,

Click to expand...

It's almost impossible to answer yoour first comment. If you mean in some requirement, like ISO 9001:2000 etc., then 'No'. If your organization's documented system says that, then that's a different matter.

FWIW, anyone who feels that retraining is required when documentation is changed is making a rod for their (organization's) back.

It's the nature of the change and the significance of the impact on the process that's more important. It should be up to the Process Owner to evaluate, with the people who do the process, supervision etc. whether any training is required.

Otherwise, be prepared to beat the system to death with that rod......:mg:

Re: Training Requirement

In response to our registrar's suggestion, we added a statement to our training procedues indicating that anyone that originates or approves a procedure is considered to be trained in same.

There is no requirement in ISO 9001:2000 that requires the supervisor to be trained for the process. If you have a competency matrix and you indicate that the supervisor is competent, then no training is required.

Just do it the way it makes sense to you and that works.

Try to keep it simple and easy.

A good rule of thumb is to make sure that all hourly personnel handling the product must have on the job documented training. In addition to that, the people who are Internal Auditors and also the personnel involved in the calibration programme must also have some sort of document job training.

The above is a MUST but some companies have gone way overboard as far as on the job training. Keep a matrix on every person in the plant and office but only document the outside training, etc. such as GD & T training or stats trainnig for the salaried members of your work force.

Don't get into too deep for documented job training for Supervisor's etc. I always remember when I was hired as a Quality Manager. What on the shop floor training did I get? Nothing. Let's say the Plant Manager of a company is the owner's son. What kind of training? This stuff get messy so keep well away.

Hope this help.