PMA (Parts Manufacturing Approval) vs IP (Intellectual Property)

T

Tommy68

We are a manufacturer and supplier of hydraulic pumps in the aerospace industry.
We deliver our products with an EASA form 1 to Boeing and Airliners (spares).

I recently found out that a competitor has a PMA on two of our products.
The PMA is obtained under a license agreement with Boeing.

Does this mean they are copying our product? It seems that they use the same P/N, which indicates fit, form and function is not affected.
In that case, are they not violating our intellectual property??

If not, how can they use the PMA on a legal way? :confused:

Hopefully you can clarify this for us!
 
B

BadgerMan

Whose design is it and whose part number is the competitor using, yours or Boeing's?
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
Is your design protected under an agreement of some kind with Boeing.
Is it patented?

Essentially the question is: Is it really your "property"...or just something you build?
 
T

Tommy68

Thank you for your reply!

I believe the design is ours, but the products are qualified under Boeing's DOA.
Boeing is using our P/N, so there is only one P/N involved in this issue.
 
T

Tommy68

Is your design protected under an agreement of some kind with Boeing.
Is it patented?

Essentially the question is: Is it really your "property"...or just something you build?

Below you can read the proprietary information of our agreement.
I have changed our company name in XXXX.

ARTICLE 3: PROPRIETARY INFORMATION

3.1 All proprietary data, test results, reports, drawings, deliverables, materials, or other technical information (Data) provided to XXXX by Boeing or provided to Boeing by XXXX in performance of this Order will be used by the receiving party only in performance of this Order, and will not be reproduced or disclosed to any other person or persons, firm, corporation, partnership or the like, or a Government department or agency. These obligations apply only to that Data which is either in (i) written form and clearly marked with an appropriate restrictive legend or (ii) not in written form but initially identified to the receiving party as proprietary and thereafter summarized in writing, marked with an appropriate restrictive legend as being proprietary to the disclosing party, and promptly transmitted to the receiving party. Furthermore, these obligations will not apply when such Data:

(a) is in the public domain, before such use or disclosure, through no fault of the receiving party;

(b) is known to the receiving party at the time of the transfer, as evidenced by written records of the receiving party; or

(c) becomes known to the receiving party before such use or disclosure, without similar restrictions from an independent source having the right to convey it.

3.2 If XXXX is required to deliver to any Government entity any Boeing Data, marked as required above, such delivery to that Government entity must be subject to the same restrictions to which XXXX is bound.

3.3 As between XXXX and Boeing, XXXX acknowledges that Boeing shall be the owner of all Data, deliverables and other materials created by Boeing as a result of providing the Services and all intellectual property rights (including copyright, trade secret, patent and similar proprietary rights) therein (collectively “Boeing Intellectual Property”). XXXX may not use externally, copy, modify, disclose, license, provide for certification or otherwise distribute any of the Boeing Intellectual Property without a further license from Boeing.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Below you can read the proprietary information of our agreement.
I have changed our company name in XXXX.

ARTICLE 3: PROPRIETARY INFORMATION

3.1 All proprietary data, test results, reports, drawings, deliverables, materials, or other technical information (Data) provided to XXXX by Boeing or provided to Boeing by XXXX in performance of this Order will be used by the receiving party only in performance of this Order, and will not be reproduced or disclosed to any other person or persons, firm, corporation, partnership or the like, or a Government department or agency. These obligations apply only to that Data which is either in (i) written form and clearly marked with an appropriate restrictive legend or (ii) not in written form but initially identified to the receiving party as proprietary and thereafter summarized in writing, marked with an appropriate restrictive legend as being proprietary to the disclosing party, and promptly transmitted to the receiving party. Furthermore, these obligations will not apply when such Data:

(a) is in the public domain, before such use or disclosure, through no fault of the receiving party;

(b) is known to the receiving party at the time of the transfer, as evidenced by written records of the receiving party; or

(c) becomes known to the receiving party before such use or disclosure, without similar restrictions from an independent source having the right to convey it.

3.2 If XXXX is required to deliver to any Government entity any Boeing Data, marked as required above, such delivery to that Government entity must be subject to the same restrictions to which XXXX is bound.

3.3 As between XXXX and Boeing, XXXX acknowledges that Boeing shall be the owner of all Data, deliverables and other materials created by Boeing as a result of providing the Services and all intellectual property rights (including copyright, trade secret, patent and similar proprietary rights) therein (collectively “Boeing Intellectual Property”). XXXX may not use externally, copy, modify, disclose, license, provide for certification or otherwise distribute any of the Boeing Intellectual Property without a further license from Boeing.

A web forum isn't the best place to be seeking legal advice. If your company believes it owns the design in question, you need to get a qualified attorney to review and pursue the matter.
 
B

BadgerMan

A web forum isn't the best place to be seeking legal advice. If your company believes it owns the design in question, you need to get a qualified attorney to review and pursue the matter.

I aggree.

I am assuming that you also hold a PMA for the product(s) in question (you did not specifically say)? If so, was it also through a licensing agreement with Boeing? That being the case, it would imply that Boeing is the design authority and has the right to develop another source for the product.

If that is not the case, your company should seek legal advice per Jim's suggestion.
 
K

kingshan

Below you can read the proprietary information of our agreement.
I have changed our company name in XXXX.

ARTICLE 3: PROPRIETARY INFORMATION


3.3 As between XXXX and Boeing, XXXX acknowledges that Boeing shall be the owner of all Data, deliverables and other materials created by Boeing as a result of providing the Services and all intellectual property rights (including copyright, trade secret, patent and similar proprietary rights) therein (collectively “Boeing Intellectual Property”). XXXX may not use externally, copy, modify, disclose, license, provide for certification or otherwise distribute any of the Boeing Intellectual Property without a further license from Boeing.

my understanding is :
From the article 3.3 is clear that Boeing intellectual property include copyright,patent etc,the XXXX company is only the production contrator which gained the limited production order or contrat from Boeing to build the part under PMA with the Boeing licensed agreement.
so Boeing has right and choice to change the contractor,so what XXXX company should do is to struggle to get the contrat back.

above is my personal understanding and suggestion,hope it will be helpful.thanks
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
We are a manufacturer and supplier of hydraulic pumps in the aerospace industry.
We deliver our products with an EASA form 1 to Boeing and Airliners (spares).

I recently found out that a competitor has a PMA on two of our products.
The PMA is obtained under a license agreement with Boeing.

Does this mean they are copying our product? It seems that they use the same P/N, which indicates fit, form and function is not affected.
In that case, are they not violating our intellectual property??

If not, how can they use the PMA on a legal way? :confused:

Hopefully you can clarify this for us!
I agree with Jim Wynne that this is a legal matter separate and apart from regulatory issues.

An attorney may provide an opinion, but, ultimately, only a court of competent jurisdiction may decide who owns the right to produce a product, which will trump any regulatory license or "permission" (like Parts Manufacturer Approval.)

There is a possibility you are not currently in possession of all the facts surrounding this issue, but I suspect the communication between your company and Boeing is lacking in an explanation of WHY Boeing thought it had "right, power, and authority" to allow your competitor to seek and obtain PMA for a product your company (or is it only you who thinks so?) designates as "proprietary."

Yes, follow Jim's advice - get an attorney before you confront Boeing at this point because folks at Boeing know that if they agree with your opinion at this point they create liability for damages which could be huge, depending on the annual dollar volume of the contract.

Best outcome: a financial settlement with Boeing without a trial. A trial could take years to come to a financial conclusion, eating up tons of legal fees. Note there is probably zero liability on the part of your competitors who dealt in good faith with Boeing.
 

Lutheus

Registered
Hi, many years passed since you brought up your problem. I just wonder how your company settled this issue? We are a MRO company and also facing PMA IP problems, and hope to learn something from your case.
 
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