Integrating ISO 14001 & 9001 into OHSAS 18001

Please let me know if you have any experience with integrating ISO 14001 & 9001 into OHSAS. I have heard about all the positive reasons to do this: save time & money, more efficient auditing, etc. What is the down side of integrating these three management systems?

It may be safe to say that I have some small experience in the area.

Downside? Primarily de-ephasizing the importance of one for the other...focusing more on one system than the other systems.

The expectation is for a transparent "business management" process managing quality,OH&S and environmental "risk" and improvement of total systems performance.

Mark711 said:

What is the down side of integrating these three management systems?

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Chances are, if you integrate the 3 management systems, some jobs might become redundant. The down side might be the loss of a few jobs. But the pros should outnumber the cons by a large margin.

If you are considering this move and have a few dollars to spare, consider investing in the purchase of PAS 99. Actually, do a search on PAS 99. It might be of benefit to you.

Integrating ISO9001, OHSAS18001 & ISO14001 would be a very good moved from the organization… since these standards are compatible with each other…

I have experienced in developing these 3 standards in one system development… not only it saved a lot of required documentations, but it gave your organization a one-overall direction…

...and it is more challenging complying with these 3 standards…

...the cons?... triple effort to meet them all... that is why it is more challenging...

Hi

I am not sure if any publicly available data points to the positives that you mention. One can argue for both the integrated system and individual systems; I believe that there is no universal answer to this debate. Each organization has to study the situation and take appropriate decision. In general in a large organization I would expect a deterioration of effectiveness of systems if the systems are integrated, basically due to human factors invovled (including those related to recognizing the expertise needed for handling certain subjects). In a small organization, one may find advantages through integration.

We should recognize that the management systems are indeed formulated, established and maintained by human beings. It is not just procedures and policies alone.

With best regards,

Ramakrishnan

Actually because of the common elements between the 3 systems (14001 and 18001 being almost identical except for a couple of buzz words) you wind up with a formula that can look something like this when you intergrate them all.

1+1+1=1.50 +/- 0.?? (Each #1 represents a system and all its elements....9001 because of section 7 stuff adds a bit of extra gotta do items)

I just made this up, but it's kinda what you get

Mark711 said:

Please let me know if you have any experience with integrating ISO 14001 & 9001 into OHSAS. I have heard about all the positive reasons to do this: save time & money, more efficient auditing, etc. What is the down side of integrating these three management systems?

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I have done many audits at companies which had all three standards. Some companies had OHSAS 18001 officially, and some had a modified version.)

Some of these clients had integrated the three systems, some had not. My audit team always recommends integrating them in each situation. I have not ever seen any downsde, and heartily recommend it. It could have downsides if done badly, but does not need to have any. And, while it could cost jobs, it does not have to. Good people can be reassigned to other important tasks.

Go for it. I have a paper on the topic of integrating these somewhere at the forum.

Dear friend,

I am also undergoing the same process of integrating QMS, and EHS. pls. make sure that the section responsible personnels are reporting to the single MR. Otherwise it becomes a tedious task if the QMS MR and EHS MR are separate platforms.


Regards
Aditya singh

adityadelhi said:

Dear friend,

I am also undergoing the same process of integrating QMS, and EHS. pls. make sure that the section responsible personnels are reporting to the single MR. Otherwise it becomes a tedious task if the QMS MR and EHS MR are separate platforms.


Regards
Aditya singh

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Actually, many of my clients have integrated their systems, but most have kept separate the EMS MR and QMS MR. There is significant technical knowledge in both disciplines, and not always easy for one person to be expert in both.

However, it is still easy to merge the systems and procedures, primarily by looking at EMS as several more processes to be added to the list of QMS processes. I had posted a paper on this forum some time ago on this topic, but I cannot find it now.

While I would not necessarily consider this a "downside" to integration, the largest obstacle that my organization faced was resistance.

Resistance to change.

Resistance to a perceived loss of responsibility and authority...thus "power".

Resistance to knocking down the silos or walls between departments.

Our organization had many departments and people that were "old school". Their areas were their territory. There was a lot of resistance to sharing ideas, communicating, merging systems/tools/methodologies.

We applied the formula C + V + D > R, where if C, V and D are done properly, R (Resistance) can be overcome.

C = Current state - convince the people that the current state is inadequate, does not meet their needs and must change.

V = Vision - how the future system will be better, make lives easier, and help the organization.

D = Do it - a detailed plan and strong support to help people move from C to V.

Another issue that we discovered, was that while integrating merged much of what we used, it did create a large, all-encompassing system. This allowed those people who wanted to keep their "silo world" intact to create tools / standards / documents...a larger system created some hiding spaces for these people.

To resolve this situation, we adopted an integrated, layered audit process. Several levels of personnel are involved in different types of audits, while maintaining a focus on quality, environment, safety, financial, etc.

We also took those people who were desparate to hang on to their "silo" and moved them into positions that promoted coaching and facilitation instead of old school supervision / management. This gave those individuals more exposure to the system and promoted understanding.