Quality Management is simple or complex (man-machine-method-material-environment)

MingDavid · Feb 23, 2010

Everybody knows: quality essential elements are man/machine/method/material/environment. ISO 9001 controls these five elements through using process approach or PDCA. ISO/TS 16949 is the same with the it. Is the quality management simple?
The production of the company I worked depended on auto-machine, and the quality problems were caused by Machine and Material. So in that time I always felt the quality management is very easy, and I had no any quality concept and quality awareness.
Sometimes I real feel quality management is very simple. Why do ISO make it so complex? You know, my quality just is Machine. But the terms of ISO 9001 and ISO/TS16949 are so interesting. :bigwave:

qusys · Feb 23, 2010

There is also Measurement to complete 6 M model.
To complete your observation, I think that it is fundamental not to make the mistake to consider QMS as a fact only of production.

Do you have a precise question for this?
:bigwave:

MingDavid said:
Everybody knows: quality essential elements are man/machine/method/material/environment. ISO 9001 controls these five elements through using process approach or PDCA. ISO/TS 16949 is the same with the it. Is the quality management simple?
The production of the company I worked depended on auto-machine, and the quality problems were caused by Machine and Material. So in that time I always felt the quality management is very easy, and I had no any quality concept and quality awareness.
Sometimes I real feel quality management is very simple. Why do ISO make it so complex? You know, my quality just is Machine. But the terms of ISO 9001 and ISO/TS16949 are so interesting.

suildur · Feb 23, 2010

MingDavid said:
Everybody knows: quality essential elements are man/machine/method/material/environment. ISO 9001 controls these five elements through using process approach or PDCA. ISO/TS 16949 is the same with the it. Is the quality management simple?
The production of the company I worked depended on auto-machine, and the quality problems were caused by Machine and Material. So in that time I always felt the quality management is very easy, and I had no any quality concept and quality awareness.
Sometimes I real feel quality management is very simple. Why do ISO make it so complex? You know, my quality just is Machine. But the terms of ISO 9001 and ISO/TS16949 are so interesting.

Well, what about,

1. Planning of the manufacturing site,
2. Customer relations,
3. Customer complaints,
4. The after delivery services,
5. Efficiency, training and awareness of employees for above functions...

I think I can write more. At least, you know that the whole auto-machine system is planned, installed, operated, maintained and calibrated by man.

The best picture of the QMS can be understood with the process aproach model QMS figure in the begining of the ISO 9001. I think, just the PDCA cycle is missing there; however, you can write it on the figure on your own -clause 6 as Plan, clause 7 as Do, clause 8 as Control and clause 5 as Act.

alitaptap · Feb 23, 2010

I think it could be simple or it could be complex. The answer depends on choice, crisis or chance.

MingDavid · Feb 23, 2010

suildur said:
Well, what about,

I think I can write more. At least, you know that the whole auto-machine system is planned, installed, operated, maintained and calibrated by man.

Thanks!
The auto-machine were new and stable, the after-sale service of the machine is very good. the planning and installation of the mahcine is not our responsibility, machine operation is only a stable and standard procedure, it is very simple and has not many variable. Key maintainment is not also our work, we are only responsibility for simple and daily maitainment. and the machine does not need calibration. Is this quality management simple? Is the complex ISO standards very interesting?

suildur · Feb 23, 2010

MingDavid said:
Thanks!
The auto-machine were new and stable, the after-sale service of the machine is very good. the planning and installation of the mahcine is not our responsibility, machine operation is only a stable and standard procedure, it is very simple and has not many variable. Key maintainment is not also our work, we are only responsibility for simple and daily maitainment. and the machine does not need calibration. Is this quality management simple? Is the complex ISO standards very interesting?

You must be happy then

However, I cannot guarantee if an auditor asks for more.

MingDavid · Feb 23, 2010

suildur said:
You must be happy then However, I cannot guarantee if an auditor asks for more.

Tell you I am now a ISO auditor to be responsible for planning/establishing/maintainment of ISO managerment system. In fact, my question is how to plan and establish this quality management system that is not only conformity with the standards but also simple. this is the question I often think.

suildur · Feb 23, 2010

MingDavid said:
Tell you I am now a ISO auditor to be responsible for planning/establishing/maintainment of ISO managerment system. In fact, my question is how to plan and establish this quality management system that is not only conformity with the standards but also simple. this is the question I often think.

Ok, I got it wrong then at the begining.

Sometimes, I use the below method to visualize the QMS which I will establish when I offer consulting to a new client.

You can take the process model based QMS figure and the clauses of the standard in front of you, plus your manufacturing processes list, then you can place every process on the figure and see if there is a QMS being formed. Maybe that helps.

sal881vw · Feb 23, 2010

MingDavid said:
Tell you I am now a ISO auditor to be responsible for planning/establishing/maintainment of ISO managerment system. In fact, my question is how to plan and establish this quality management system that is not only conformity with the standards but also simple. this is the question I often think.

You need to establish a team of reliable persons that are capable of promoting quality philosophies and techniques effectively. There is plenty of information available in this forum to help you out. Definitely you will need top management's commitment.

Quality Management is simple or complex (man-machine-method-material-environment)

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