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FMS-Steve
We have a certified Welder (AWS17.1) we were just audited last week he told us that our certified welder can verify and check an non certified welders weld on a aerospace product as long as they both sign off. Is this true?
Re: Can a certified welder certify other welders ?
Hi FMS-Steve.
I have moved your post to the training section as a fresh post to get more directed responses. Additionally, your post was part of a very old thread could have been missed easily.
Also refer an existing thread - Training Records for Welders
Pls let me know if the title is fine.
Hi FMS-Steve.
I have moved your post to the training section as a fresh post to get more directed responses. Additionally, your post was part of a very old thread could have been missed easily.
Also refer an existing thread - Training Records for Welders
Pls let me know if the title is fine.
A certified welder is qualified to verify the weld too. So his inspection and signoff holds weightage, provided the welding has been performed under validated installation. He is however not qualified to certify the welder.
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PaulJSmith
somashekar is correct. A certified welder can certify the work performed by another welder, but he cannot certify that welder. This is a common practice in many industries, including aerospace, especially during on-the-job-training (OJT) where an experienced worker reviews and signs off on the work of a newer trainee. It can also happen when an employee who performed the work is not available to sign off the work, and another employee reviews the work and signs it off as acceptable.
The certification of the competences of a welder is "ad personam", the certification go through a specific path that is regulated by guidelines at national level by an external body that gives those certification.
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Welding_Engr_Rich
The failure of a critical weld could result in multiples deaths and loss of property.
As a Professional Welding Engineer (Degreed, and Licensed) I will not accept the weld of a welder that has not been certified (documented training, experience and successfully passing the required weld performance tests). Any one or company that does opens themselves up to litigation.
A welder who signs off for another and is caught doing this opens himself up to trouble. If he works for me, he will be fired and possible legal action, falsifying record, causing a lose of tracebility between the weld and the welder, the weld will be removed, part may be scraped and reworked using approved procedures and certified individuals.
To know what actually happens during the making of the welds the following must be confirmed.
All welds and welders are tracked, both discontinuities (imperfects but not to the level that it will cause failure)and defects. A welder that exhibits a significant amount of defects or discontinuities may have to requalify, sent back to training at a lower pay-rate or let go.
Unless you actually see the welding being made from start to finish you can not be certain that it was done per the codes and requirements.
- end of rant.
As a Professional Welding Engineer (Degreed, and Licensed) I will not accept the weld of a welder that has not been certified (documented training, experience and successfully passing the required weld performance tests). Any one or company that does opens themselves up to litigation.
A welder who signs off for another and is caught doing this opens himself up to trouble. If he works for me, he will be fired and possible legal action, falsifying record, causing a lose of tracebility between the weld and the welder, the weld will be removed, part may be scraped and reworked using approved procedures and certified individuals.
To know what actually happens during the making of the welds the following must be confirmed.
- Pre-welding- Witness the weld preparation, tools used, angles and dimensions of gap root,and face. verify that all potential contamination has been removed.
- Witness the application of preheat. Where it was applied, time and temperature. Did it confirm to the specifications, codes and standards?
- Witness and review the filler material used. Storage and any potential contamination. Verify the length of time the filler material has been exposed to ambient air? Does it conform to the codes, standards and regulations?
- During the welding process - Monitor the welding parameters; current, voltage, torch angles, speed, weave, gas flow rate, start and stop procedures, distance between the electrode and weld joint, purging , fore and training gas or flux. and All essential variables per the codes and regulations. Actually witnessing the weld being made.
- Post welding- cleanup procedures, correct tools used, any post-weld heat treatments if applied.
All welds and welders are tracked, both discontinuities (imperfects but not to the level that it will cause failure)and defects. A welder that exhibits a significant amount of defects or discontinuities may have to requalify, sent back to training at a lower pay-rate or let go.
Unless you actually see the welding being made from start to finish you can not be certain that it was done per the codes and requirements.
- end of rant.
Welcome to the Cove, Welding Engr Rich 
Thanks for your very valuable inputs in this thread.
Thanks for your very valuable inputs in this thread.
Mikishots
Trusted Information Resource
Exactly correct. This is why welding is considered a special process; the process cannot be verified through subsequent monitoring or measurement. You'd have to be sitting there watching the entire process to ensure the requirements were met.
Welcome to the Cove! I'm always excited to see new members that are experienced in special processes/NADCAP.
mwccwi
Martin MC Weldtech AWS CWI/CWE, ACCP LVL II VT DT
I understand that I’m entering this discussion late, but I feel that we must be aware that AWS D17.1:2010 requires CWI or B5.2 qualification for all visual inspection of welding.
Nadcap issued a weld advisory back in 2011that addresses this concern, the advisory said:
“AWS D17.1:2010 at para 7.1.2 introduced a new requirement for Visual Weld Inspectors. This paragraph now requires visual weld inspectors to be certified to the requirements of QC1 or by experience, training and testing requirements defined in AWS B5.2
In the prior revision, there was no reference to AWS B5.2.
Note that this was not highlighted as a change in AWS D17.1:2010”
Nadcap issued a weld advisory back in 2011that addresses this concern, the advisory said:
“AWS D17.1:2010 at para 7.1.2 introduced a new requirement for Visual Weld Inspectors. This paragraph now requires visual weld inspectors to be certified to the requirements of QC1 or by experience, training and testing requirements defined in AWS B5.2
In the prior revision, there was no reference to AWS B5.2.
Note that this was not highlighted as a change in AWS D17.1:2010”
