Q
qe2008
Are soldering irons considered "monitoring and measuring equipment that needs to be calibrated or verified at specified intervals, or prior to use" under Clause 7.6?
Thanks,
Juneau
Thanks,
Juneau
Soldering and AS9100 - Are soldering irons "monitoring and measuring equipment"?
B
BadgerMan
Re: Soldering and AS9100
If they have a temperature setting read-out on them (as ours do) I would say yes.
If they have a temperature setting read-out on them (as ours do) I would say yes.
Re: Soldering and AS9100 - Are soldering irons "monitoring and measuring equiptment"?
In aerospace products, most soldering processes would fall under the so called "special processes". AS9100B 7.5.2.c states
So, if the soldering process spec calls for specific temperature settings and was validated accordingly, the soldering iron associated instrumentation needs to be calibrated/verified. Otherwise, you have no confidence that the process is being performed in accordance with the approved specification for the process.
Re: Soldering and AS9100
I've been through this *many * times. NO. They are production equipment. Whether they have to be calibrated or not is the appropriate question. The answer is "It depends". If it is required by contract, Yes. This is typically the case in high reliability electronics (military grade). China Lake even had a Mil-Std and a certification training course at one time.
I have written about this in other posts here but I can not find one at the moment so maybe this will help (and save me a bit of time writing)
:
From Jerry Eldred circa 2000:
As I have been trained as a MIL-STD-2000 Soldering Instructor in the past, I will briefly respond.
There are as mentioned, a few reasons to calibrate soldering irons:
1. ESD - Assuring that the tip is properly grounded minimizes ESD
issues.
2. Solder quality. The tip temperature accuracy affects proper application of solder, and subsequently solder joint reliability. For example, an insufficient temperature may cause 'cold' solder joints, and will perhaps not allow adequate whetting of the solder through the circuit assembly (along with other variables).
Too hot a soldering temperature will measle the board, damage the solder, lift the bond pads, heat stress or damage components, cause an undesired flow, and other issues. Overall, poor control of solder application (which is a factor of the tin/lead composition, solder purity, cleanliness of the circuit board, temperature and time of solder application, among other things) will cause relibility problems
in the circuit boards.
If your soldering temperatures are varying by as much as 100 Deg F, there is a definite reliability issue. MIL-STD-2000, as I recall, was developed as a "high reliability soldering" standard. If you desire high solder joint reliability, then the parameters which have now transitioned to the ANSI spec, are most definitely important. Plus or minus 5 deg C is in my view a quite reasonable allowable limit for high reliability soldering applications. The good soldering equipment available on the market is quite adequate to meet those needs. When I was in charge of soldering reliability and ESD at a former employer, I literally threw away a small trash can full of old "soldering irons" whch were not temperature controlled, and replaced them with variable temp solder stations.
After replacement of this equipment alone, I saw a first pass yield on a large circuit board (part of a digital antenna coupler assembly) go from 0% to more than 90%, simply because the soldering operators were assuring that they got consistent flow of the solder through the circuit board. The temperature control was a great part of that.
enough said.
Best Regards,
Jerry Eldred
Greg Gogates wrote:
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:49:56 -0700
> From: "Dale, Steve"
> Subject: RE: Soldering iron calibration
>
> The certification of solder irons stem from MIL-STD-2000A. The tip
> temperature is checked along with resistance and stray RMS voltage. This is
> driven to prevent measling and ESD issues when soldering active components.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Gogates
> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 10:52 AM
> Subject: Soldering iron calibration
>
> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:07:31 -0400
> From: Eric
> Subject: Soldering iron calibration
>
> I am in my second electronic assembly operation struggling with the
> need to
> calibrate soldering irons to +-5C. The thermal contact variation due to
>
> the geometry, nature, surface quality, tin coating and who knows how
> many
> other parameters made the temperature values measured with commercial
> calibration equipment vary by as much as 100F.
>
> On questioning it turned out that the main reason to calibrate is to
> avoid
> tip overheating and premature oxidation, since small temperature
> variations are usually compensated by operators through changes in the
> contact time with the soldered object.
>
> Another reason is that inexperienced operators can easier damage a
> printed
> circuit boar with an excessively hot soldering iron.
>
> I therefore question the need for a
> tolerance of 5C, as expressed in such standards as ANSI-J-STD-001B.
>
> --
> Eric
The bottom line is *if* it is not in the contract, you make the decision whether operators have to be trained *and* whether soldering irons *have* to be calibrated.
I've been through this *many * times. NO. They are production equipment. Whether they have to be calibrated or not is the appropriate question. The answer is "It depends". If it is required by contract, Yes. This is typically the case in high reliability electronics (military grade). China Lake even had a Mil-Std and a certification training course at one time.
I have written about this in other posts here but I can not find one at the moment so maybe this will help (and save me a bit of time writing)
:From Jerry Eldred circa 2000:
As I have been trained as a MIL-STD-2000 Soldering Instructor in the past, I will briefly respond.
There are as mentioned, a few reasons to calibrate soldering irons:
1. ESD - Assuring that the tip is properly grounded minimizes ESD
issues.
2. Solder quality. The tip temperature accuracy affects proper application of solder, and subsequently solder joint reliability. For example, an insufficient temperature may cause 'cold' solder joints, and will perhaps not allow adequate whetting of the solder through the circuit assembly (along with other variables).
Too hot a soldering temperature will measle the board, damage the solder, lift the bond pads, heat stress or damage components, cause an undesired flow, and other issues. Overall, poor control of solder application (which is a factor of the tin/lead composition, solder purity, cleanliness of the circuit board, temperature and time of solder application, among other things) will cause relibility problems
in the circuit boards.
If your soldering temperatures are varying by as much as 100 Deg F, there is a definite reliability issue. MIL-STD-2000, as I recall, was developed as a "high reliability soldering" standard. If you desire high solder joint reliability, then the parameters which have now transitioned to the ANSI spec, are most definitely important. Plus or minus 5 deg C is in my view a quite reasonable allowable limit for high reliability soldering applications. The good soldering equipment available on the market is quite adequate to meet those needs. When I was in charge of soldering reliability and ESD at a former employer, I literally threw away a small trash can full of old "soldering irons" whch were not temperature controlled, and replaced them with variable temp solder stations.
After replacement of this equipment alone, I saw a first pass yield on a large circuit board (part of a digital antenna coupler assembly) go from 0% to more than 90%, simply because the soldering operators were assuring that they got consistent flow of the solder through the circuit board. The temperature control was a great part of that.
enough said.
Best Regards,
Jerry Eldred
Greg Gogates wrote:
> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:49:56 -0700
> From: "Dale, Steve"
> Subject: RE: Soldering iron calibration
>
> The certification of solder irons stem from MIL-STD-2000A. The tip
> temperature is checked along with resistance and stray RMS voltage. This is
> driven to prevent measling and ESD issues when soldering active components.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Gogates
> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 10:52 AM
> Subject: Soldering iron calibration
>
> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:07:31 -0400
> From: Eric
> Subject: Soldering iron calibration
>
> I am in my second electronic assembly operation struggling with the
> need to
> calibrate soldering irons to +-5C. The thermal contact variation due to
>
> the geometry, nature, surface quality, tin coating and who knows how
> many
> other parameters made the temperature values measured with commercial
> calibration equipment vary by as much as 100F.
>
> On questioning it turned out that the main reason to calibrate is to
> avoid
> tip overheating and premature oxidation, since small temperature
> variations are usually compensated by operators through changes in the
> contact time with the soldered object.
>
> Another reason is that inexperienced operators can easier damage a
> printed
> circuit boar with an excessively hot soldering iron.
>
> I therefore question the need for a
> tolerance of 5C, as expressed in such standards as ANSI-J-STD-001B.
>
> --
> Eric
The bottom line is *if* it is not in the contract, you make the decision whether operators have to be trained *and* whether soldering irons *have* to be calibrated.
Re: Soldering and AS9100
Everything in the quoted text below leads to a YES answer to the question at hand.
So, for the sake of flight safety, if I had to err in this case, I would conservatively side with the YES answer. Not the iron, but the associated gage.
That does not agree with
Since the OP mentioned AS9100, which is meant for aviation, space & defense product lines, I believe there is a high criticality issue.
Everything in the quoted text below leads to a YES answer to the question at hand.
So, for the sake of flight safety, if I had to err in this case, I would conservatively side with the YES answer. Not the iron, but the associated gage.
Re: Soldering and AS9100
Sidney, the OP asked if soldering irons are "monitoring and measuring equipment". You can slide them in together, but I classify soldering irons as process equipment. A person does not monitor a product parameter or measure a product parameter with it. That does not mean its controller does or does not have to be calibrated.
As to the AS9100 reference, it would depend upon what the specific item being soldered is. Not everything in an aircraft that is soldered has to do with flight safety.
The OP did not give enough information to answer the question.
Sidney, the OP asked if soldering irons are "monitoring and measuring equipment". You can slide them in together, but I classify soldering irons as process equipment. A person does not monitor a product parameter or measure a product parameter with it. That does not mean its controller does or does not have to be calibrated.
As to the AS9100 reference, it would depend upon what the specific item being soldered is. Not everything in an aircraft that is soldered has to do with flight safety.
The OP did not give enough information to answer the question.
G
gbcqc
Re: Soldering and AS9100
I agree with you. We verify the calibration of our Soldering Irons. The reason is the same as our ovens. We have ovens, they are not "monitoring and measuring equipment", but the temp gages and charts printers on the ovens are.
I agree with you. We verify the calibration of our Soldering Irons. The reason is the same as our ovens. We have ovens, they are not "monitoring and measuring equipment", but the temp gages and charts printers on the ovens are.
Re: Soldering and AS9100
Yup - Same principle.
I've seen injection molding where aspects such as pressure, hold time, temperature of material at injection point (and of 'hot runners' when used), and mold temperature (some major aspects) were not 'critical'. Gages were 'reference' gages and were not calibrated.
I've seen other jobs where each parameter was critical (especially double shots), in which case the gages were calibrated.
Either way, the operator does not monitor a product parameter or measure a product parameter with the molding machine. They *do* measure/monitor *process* (molding machine) parameters.
Yup - Same principle.
I've seen injection molding where aspects such as pressure, hold time, temperature of material at injection point (and of 'hot runners' when used), and mold temperature (some major aspects) were not 'critical'. Gages were 'reference' gages and were not calibrated.
I've seen other jobs where each parameter was critical (especially double shots), in which case the gages were calibrated.
Either way, the operator does not monitor a product parameter or measure a product parameter with the molding machine. They *do* measure/monitor *process* (molding machine) parameters.
R
ralphsulser
Re: Soldering and AS9100 - Are soldering irons "monitoring and measuring equiptment"?
If the verification process is documented in a written instruction and there is OVE that it was completed and acceptable then I believe that should be an acceptable method for AS9100.
If the verification process is documented in a written instruction and there is OVE that it was completed and acceptable then I believe that should be an acceptable method for AS9100.
Similar threads
