Help, we have a very effective LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) within our operations group including machining, assembly, quality, and planning. However our HR group recently started and are having major difficulties. They want to move to a weekly meeting because they state they don't have metrics they have to review daily. I have given suggestions on monitoring daily attendence at the meeting, outstanding reviews daily, or daily 5S+1 status. So far I am not selling them on the usefulness of LDMS in thier area. Please let me know if anyone has successfully implemented LDMS in HR and some pointers. Thanks!
LDMS (Lean Daily Management System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
- Thread starter System
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Re: LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
System,
Weekend responses are bit slow at the Cove, so pls wait until early next week for reply to your question.
System,
Weekend responses are bit slow at the Cove, so pls wait until early next week for reply to your question.
Re: LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
Good day System,
I do appreciate Lean and all it seeks to achieve, but I am wondering what the HR group's daily activities are that warrant such frequent metrics reporting.
Please don't misunderstand me: I do know what HR does. But productivity does not look the same in a support function as it does in production.
There are exceptions. If there's an urgent or large scale project with deadlines and missing known targets presents significant risks to the organization for defined reasons, then brief daily reports can be a good idea. But I do not think that applying the same metrics reporting strategy for everyone supports Lean; in fact, measuring for the sake of measuring is arguably not Lean, but fat.
When thinking about metrics it's important to first start with what the organization's leadership wants to know, and when they need the information. Do these people even look at the metrics every day? If their wish to view progress is not regular but they want it whenever they want to view it, it's possible to create a log to manage activities that doesn't require a lot of maintenance. In a thread titled Old QMS... NEW QM.. I don't know where to start I attached an example of what might be used to manage and communicate progress if it was placed on a common network file as a "read-only" for all except HR people who are given a password. The Dashboard could even be copied and pasted in the body of an email. It automatically updates itself based on what users enter into the separate project sheets - does not take a lot of effort to maintain. I did this to avoid the time-taxing "death by meeting" approach to management.
The tool is set up in a project management format, but not all the fields need to be filled in for the tool to function adequately. However, HR should be coached and supported in understanding the value they bring to the organization: how they help meet top management's defined goals, the benefit that Mr. or Ms. so-and-so has brought, etc. This might even be considered ROI if the HR activities are noted as expenses. To raise the ROI ratio, HR might use this tool to review the activities and resources used to do their work and decide to try a different approach. They could compare the two for value in terms of time, contracted/purchased resources used, and/or iterations - finding the right person the first time versus dealing with turnover. Now that's Lean!
I hope this helps!
Good day System,
I do appreciate Lean and all it seeks to achieve, but I am wondering what the HR group's daily activities are that warrant such frequent metrics reporting.
Please don't misunderstand me: I do know what HR does. But productivity does not look the same in a support function as it does in production.
There are exceptions. If there's an urgent or large scale project with deadlines and missing known targets presents significant risks to the organization for defined reasons, then brief daily reports can be a good idea. But I do not think that applying the same metrics reporting strategy for everyone supports Lean; in fact, measuring for the sake of measuring is arguably not Lean, but fat.
When thinking about metrics it's important to first start with what the organization's leadership wants to know, and when they need the information. Do these people even look at the metrics every day? If their wish to view progress is not regular but they want it whenever they want to view it, it's possible to create a log to manage activities that doesn't require a lot of maintenance. In a thread titled Old QMS... NEW QM.. I don't know where to start I attached an example of what might be used to manage and communicate progress if it was placed on a common network file as a "read-only" for all except HR people who are given a password. The Dashboard could even be copied and pasted in the body of an email. It automatically updates itself based on what users enter into the separate project sheets - does not take a lot of effort to maintain. I did this to avoid the time-taxing "death by meeting" approach to management.
The tool is set up in a project management format, but not all the fields need to be filled in for the tool to function adequately. However, HR should be coached and supported in understanding the value they bring to the organization: how they help meet top management's defined goals, the benefit that Mr. or Ms. so-and-so has brought, etc. This might even be considered ROI if the HR activities are noted as expenses. To raise the ROI ratio, HR might use this tool to review the activities and resources used to do their work and decide to try a different approach. They could compare the two for value in terms of time, contracted/purchased resources used, and/or iterations - finding the right person the first time versus dealing with turnover. Now that's Lean!
I hope this helps!
Re: LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
Jennifer,
Thanks very much for your detailed response, and you are right I clearly don't want to creat fat by over measuring. So I appreciate the "Lean" check on my approach, I will hold back on pushing metrics.
However, I read the book Office Kaizen by William Lareau awhile ago and when I went back to it, it states that daily meetings are required. It went on to say; "If a leader cannot afford to devote five to 10 minutes a day in each work group as an investment toward a strategic competitive advantage, they will not have the courage, insight, determination, and endurance to make any elements of Office Kaizen work."
Although, this is a little strong, I do clearly see the benefit of having daily team meetings to build team morale and improve team communication.
I am always open to other's input as well!
Thanks
Jennifer,
Thanks very much for your detailed response, and you are right I clearly don't want to creat fat by over measuring. So I appreciate the "Lean" check on my approach, I will hold back on pushing metrics.
However, I read the book Office Kaizen by William Lareau awhile ago and when I went back to it, it states that daily meetings are required. It went on to say; "If a leader cannot afford to devote five to 10 minutes a day in each work group as an investment toward a strategic competitive advantage, they will not have the courage, insight, determination, and endurance to make any elements of Office Kaizen work."
Although, this is a little strong, I do clearly see the benefit of having daily team meetings to build team morale and improve team communication.
I am always open to other's input as well!
Thanks
Re: LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
Thank you System,
I do believe in frequently keeping in touch with one's HR people, and more so when they are dealing with something new or strenuous.
But I want to avoid measurements for the sake of measuring, even though I know many QA people who insist you can't improve what you can't measure. HR absolutely has metrics - the ROI Institute has a bunch of good material out there, such as Measuring ROI in Human Resources. I just maintain that HR metrics happen slower than stuff-in, stuff-out metrics like with production.
Daily team meetings could involve a qualitative discussion of what is happening, constraints people are running into, resources they need, ideas they can share with each other, if they've talked with other industry people about this-or-that approach, etc. Only once a week does my group talk about things like audits done-against schedule, open nonconformances, and measurables like that.
Thank you System,
I do believe in frequently keeping in touch with one's HR people, and more so when they are dealing with something new or strenuous.
But I want to avoid measurements for the sake of measuring, even though I know many QA people who insist you can't improve what you can't measure. HR absolutely has metrics - the ROI Institute has a bunch of good material out there, such as Measuring ROI in Human Resources. I just maintain that HR metrics happen slower than stuff-in, stuff-out metrics like with production.
Daily team meetings could involve a qualitative discussion of what is happening, constraints people are running into, resources they need, ideas they can share with each other, if they've talked with other industry people about this-or-that approach, etc. Only once a week does my group talk about things like audits done-against schedule, open nonconformances, and measurables like that.
Last edited:
T
tekno9000
Re: LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
Hi Jennifer,
I am not able access the link (Page Not found).
Can you please repost it?
Thanks
Hi Jennifer,
I am not able access the link (Page Not found).
Can you please repost it?
Thanks
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
Here is the requested link:
https://media.roiinstitute.net/pdf/...Human_Resources_Programs_Conference_Board.pdf
Stijloor.
Here is the requested link:
https://media.roiinstitute.net/pdf/...Human_Resources_Programs_Conference_Board.pdf
Stijloor.
Re: LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
Thank you Stijloor!
I corrected the hyperlink address, but you got to it first. 
Thank you Stijloor!
I corrected the hyperlink address, but you got to it first. 
Re: LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
How are daily metric meetings lean? Seems overkill even in production. Measuring on a daily basis for many of the metrics is probably just reviewing noise so no real improvement can be made. Weekly might be over kill too.
How are daily metric meetings lean? Seems overkill even in production. Measuring on a daily basis for many of the metrics is probably just reviewing noise so no real improvement can be made. Weekly might be over kill too.
Re: LDMS (Lean Daily Managment System) HELP: No Daily Metrics in HR
That's OK Jennifer! Thanks for the thanks!
Stijloor.
Thank you Stijloor!
That's OK Jennifer! Thanks for the thanks!
Stijloor.
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