Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard?

Clause 8.2.2 states an auditor cannot audit their own work.
Our AS9100 auditor says that anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard. What are your thoughts on this subject?

Re: Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard

kitty05 said:

Clause 8.2.2 states an auditor cannot audit their own work.
Our AS9100 auditor says that anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard. What are your thoughts on this subject?

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Pure sillyness!

Re: Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard

kitty05 said:

Clause 8.2.2 states an auditor cannot audit their own work.
Our AS9100 auditor says that anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard. What are your thoughts on this subject?

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with Big Jim ... Did you ask your As9100 auditor why he says so ... ?

Re: Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard

Do not let them audit to 8.2.2 and make them do the rest. Maybe working will change their mind since it gives me the impression they are looking to avoid work
The only thing the standard states is that an auditor cannot audit their own work.
With regards to this auditor and their view it appears that your system might have a "nonconformance" with Para 6.2.1 of the AS9100 standard .

Re: Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard

I think the spirit of this clause is that "part time" auditors cannot audit their areas. Example, a Product Design Engineer who is also a part time ISO auditor cannot audit the Design Engineering Processes/procedures. Now, maybe a full time ISO auditor cannot audit the Internal ISO auditing process. That might make sense to me.

Re: Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard

Do you think he could be meaning that someone who carries out internal audits can not audit the audit procedure of which he/she is part of? That would mean they would be auditing their own work which I understand is not acceptable.

Re: Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard

MikeHL said:

I think the spirit of this clause is that "part time" auditors cannot audit their areas. Example, a Product Design Engineer who is also a part time ISO auditor cannot audit the Design Engineering Processes/procedures. Now, maybe a full time ISO auditor cannot audit the Internal ISO auditing process. That might make sense to me.

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Not really! It simply says you can't "audit your own work". That's not the same as "area" or anything else. It's simple - if you did it, you can't audit that you did it!

Nothing to do with full or part time, either. Most internal auditors are "part time" in that they have other jobs. Few organizations these days can afford to have anyone doing audits "full time"...

Re: Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard

TPMB4 said:

Do you think he could be meaning that someone who carries out internal audits can not audit the audit procedure of which he/she is part of? That would mean they would be auditing their own work which I understand is not acceptable.

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Auditing the procedure isn't auditing their own work, either! They simply cannot audit those audits they did! Pure and simple.

Please don't over-think this!

Re: Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard

AndyN said:

Auditing the procedure isn't auditing their own work, either! They simply cannot audit those audits they did! Pure and simple.

Please don't over-think this!

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I would repeat as well... "don't over-think this!"

Additionally though, I would state that in the spirit of the clause, consideration should be given to having an unbiased/independent viewpoint by the auditor. It can be difficult for a part-time auditor to have a free and open mind when auditing a process or procedure that they are regularly involved with during normal work responsibilities.

As an Engineer myself, supporting much of the production, I find that I need to work extra hard at stepping out of my normal work role when auditing certain areas. Auditing direct peers and supervisors/managers can also be intimidating

Re: Anyone who audits 8.2.2 cannot audit other clauses of the standard

I lead the internal audit team comprising of ~20 auditors. The way we apprached this is to not audit our own work. I have accountability for the internal audit and calibration program so I can not audit thses processes.

Our registrar and customers are happy with this. I would push back on the auditor for better clarification.