Management Review not conducted according to schedule

adnanh

Registered
:bigwave: hello all,
I have to get your help in this. I am working for a telecom organization (QA manager) and we are ISO9001:2008 certified with renewal certification ahead in the next year.
The management review is defined on every alternate months (after every 2 months) but it is not conducted regularly. Reason being the steering committee busy schedule and have (so called) business critical tasks. It was been highlighted by auditor as well and the chief agrees to conduct it regularly but upon reminders, himself gets involved in (so called) business critical tasks and suggests to defer the MR meeting. I performed the RCA and corrective action but could not bluntly write the reason (which was who gives it a damn).
would really appreciate your idea on handling this situation.
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
:bigwave: hello all,
I have to get your help in this. I am working for a telecom organization (QA manager) and we are ISO9001:2008 certified with renewal certification ahead in the next year.
The management review is defined on every alternate months (after every 2 months) but it is not conducted regularly. Reason being the steering committee busy schedule and have (so called) business critical tasks. It was been highlighted by auditor as well and the chief agrees to conduct it regularly but upon reminders, himself gets involved in (so called) business critical tasks and suggests to defer the MR meeting. I performed the RCA and corrective action but could not bluntly write the reason (which was who gives it a damn).
would really appreciate your idea on handling this situation.

adnanh,

Bimonthly management review meetings imposed on senior management? I would not attend them either!

Determine the meetings that actually do take place regularly. Obtain the agenda for these meetings. Introduce one or two of the items to be discussed on the suitability, adequacy and effectiveness of the management system so the review is completed over 12 months for a mature management system.

Ensure top management is issued with succinct reports on the performance of their management system so they can prepare to discuss it meaningfully. Report the results on the management reviews to improve the performance of the management system so employees know:

  1. What the management system does well,
  2. What the management system does less than well, and
  3. What top management is doing about item 2.
Right now, it seems, you need to mainstream everyone's thinking about the management system instead of allowing a bolt-on QMS to fail to compete for management attention with management system that actually runs the organization.

John
 

harry

Trusted Information Resource
: .............. It was been highlighted by auditor as well and the chief agrees to conduct it regularly but upon reminders, himself gets involved in (so called) business critical tasks and suggests to defer the MR meeting. .....................

The traditional sit-down meeting is one of the most effective method to conduct a review but not the only way. Realistically, the relevant items (well summarized by John's post above) can be emailed to the respective people to be reviewed - this is especially relevant for organizations where the top people are constantly on the move. If you have a mixed of both, you can meet the bi-monthly requirement imposed by your own self.
 

adnanh

Registered
Thanks a lot for your support:agree1:
i agree to your suggestion and would discuss to have things shaped in a practical manner.
we have got reviews by the same steering committee members on mostly technical issues but not QA related.If this can be treated as management reviews and have the flexibility to be a part of management review, would it be a step for compliance to the related ISO9001 standard. Do you agree!
 

AndyN

Moved On
It would be worth us understanding what is being reviewed and how this review is conducted, too. Yes, there's a list of topics in the standard, but if one person is presenting, then the others will "switch off", and sit back. If the topics are assigned to them - as process owners - and they bring their information to review, the dynamic of the meeting/review changes. Too many Management Reps believe it's their job to present everything and there's zero participation by others, as a result.
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
adnanh,

Provided you are not "allowing a bolt-on QMS to fail to compete for management attention with management system that actually runs the organization" then your colleagues in top management may agree.

Relating quality objectives to business objectives can help avoid this. The same goes for your quality behaviors, controls and processes being a natural part of your business processes.

Wishing you every success,

John
 
K

kgott

I disagree; I am certain that your management has reviewed some aspect of your management systems in the last week and probably some aspects of several management systems.

Any time any member of management reviews any aspect of organisational performance they are engaging in management review.

I will bet any amount of money that your management has reviewed some aspect of the 'get the work, do the work get paid' system in your business. Why am I so confident? because I know how important money is and I also know closely related production is to money.

Are you sure your management hasn't talked to a customer in the last two weeks?

Your perception that management review has not been done or has been delayed is caused by the the phrase 'regular intervals' in the standard.

Question; does the standard prevent management reviews based on event criteria? Question: where does it say in the standard that the only permissible reviews are time based reviews?

hope this helps
 
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Pjservan

Involved In Discussions
My two cents to the discussion: i agree with most, that the items required to be reviewed might be cover during your other meetings. You may want to map the different meetings that you have and the different subject matters that are covered in those meetings. I have a client that was able to explain that this how Management Review was being conducted at their company without any issues.

The second point is the fact that management seems not to value the meeting. That is a red flag right there; maybe the items that are being presented are not meaningful enough to be reviewed or catching management's attention. Although ISO is very prescriptive in what it expects to be review over time; it doesn't mean that all the data and points presented are meaningless. It seems that more work is required to tie-in the QMS to day to day activities and to items that are meaningful to management.
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
Please remember to communicate the results of management review of the performance of the management system to the employees.

The last part of clause 5.5.3 is often forgotten:

...and that communication takes place regarding the effectiveness of the quality management system.
 

TPMB4

Quite Involved in Discussions
Can I put my version of what has been said before? Look at the meetings your steering committee already conducts. Are there any matters relating to the QMS being discussed? As someone said "get work, do work, get paid" is this not a basic part of a company and part of QMS?

Produce a table outlining the meetings held, the topics discussed relating to your QMS, the frequency and then start from there to find the gaps. These gaps could quite simply be swept up in a meeting once a year or more frequently if more critical. I think you might find that you are doing your MR even if you are not having the scheduled bi-monthly organized meetings.

BTW I found such a table on Elsmar and courtesy of the cooperative way it works on here I based mine on it / plagiarized it. I can't remember where I found it or I would link it here.

In our case the same members of the MR team met every week (at least twice) for a review on production. A simple addition and Quality got discussed. Another bi-weekly meeting on another topic, little tweak and Quality became part of it. You see what I am getting at? List the meetings and tweak away to get your meaningful MR sorted. Even MR processes need to add value and be seen to add value.

I think this has been said earlier but I hope my version adds to the discussion. Good luck with your tweaking of the existing meetings if that is the way you go.
 
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