Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Audits

noboost4you · Feb 4, 2009

We state in our Quality Manual the following:
• Management review meetings are conducted at the minimum of two times per year to determine the continuing suitability, adequacy and effectiveness of the quality management system in meeting the requirements of ISO 9001:2000, customer requirements and the stated quality policy.
• Additional management review meetings may be scheduled by management, as necessary.
• The Vice President/MR and/or Quality Assurance Manager determine the date of the management review meeting.

Our next internal audit is in March and our surveillance audit is in April. We haven't had a complete Management Review Meeting since September 2008. Will we get written up for not having a complete management review meeting this year prior to the audits? We state we will have a minimum of two per year and not necessarily state we will have them before our scheduled audits.

What does everyone think?

Thanks

AndyN · Feb 4, 2009

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

noboost4you said:
We state in our Quality Manual the following:
• Management review meetings are conducted at the minimum of two times per year to determine the continuing suitability, adequacy and effectiveness of the quality management system in meeting the requirements of ISO 9001:2000, customer requirements and the stated quality policy.
• Additional management review meetings may be scheduled by management, as necessary.
• The Vice President/MR and/or Quality Assurance Manager determine the date of the management review meeting.

Our next internal audit is in March and our surveillance audit is in April. We haven't had a complete Management Review Meeting since September 2008. Will we get written up for not having a complete management review meeting this year prior to the audits? We state we will have a minimum of two per year and not necessarily state we will have them before our scheduled audits.

What does everyone think?

Thanks

What's 'incomplete' about them?

noboost4you · Feb 4, 2009

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

AndyN said:
What's 'incomplete' about them?

This past January we gathered everyone to discuss only Review Input: Quality Policy and Quality Objectives based on the objective results from 2008.

All other inputs/output discussion points were not held.

AndyN · Feb 4, 2009

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

noboost4you said:
This past January we gathered everyone to discuss only Review Input: Quality Policy and Quality Objectives based on the objective results from 2008.

All other inputs/output discussion points were not held.

I would think it's appropriate not to review every aspect of the qms at the start of a new year and the review of policy and setting of (new) quality objectives by which the implementation was going to be reviewed as effective was a good story to tell any CB. Did you consider whether the results you got 'last year' were any good (either in this or a previous review)?

qualitymanager · Feb 4, 2009

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

noboost4you said:
We state in our Quality Manual the following:
• Management review meetings are conducted at the minimum of two times per year to determine the continuing suitability, adequacy and effectiveness of the quality management system in meeting the requirements of ISO 9001:2000, customer requirements and the stated quality policy....

If this is your only requirement for the frequency for Management review meetings, I'd say its possible (defining a "year" as 1st Jan to 31st Dec.) to have Meeting #1 starting at 3pm and Meeting #2 starting at 3:45pm, both on 31st Dec.

As an auditor I would be very concerned if you actually did that, but (provided all requirements of ISO 9001 were met) I would not write a nonconformity.

More realistically, I would look back over the past 12-month period (or from the start of your last "year") to see if you met the requirement in force for that period.

noboost4you · Feb 4, 2009

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

qualitymanager said:
If this is your only requirement for the frequency for Management review meetings, I'd say its possible (defining a "year" as 1st Jan to 31st Dec.) to have Meeting #1 starting at 3pm and Meeting #2 starting at 3:45pm, both on 31st Dec.

As an auditor I would be very concerned if you actually did that, but (provided all requirements of ISO 9001 were met) I would not write a nonconformity.

More realistically, I would look back over the past 12-month period (or from the start of your last "year") to see if you met the requirement in force for that period.

And that's what I figured would happen. We have evidence of past meetings and evidence of the smaller meeting we had this past January. We'll still try to gather everyone together before our internal audit, but I just wanted to be sure it wasn't completely necessary to do so based on what we say we do in our manual.

qualitymanager · Feb 4, 2009

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

Let me throw in a disclaimer: I am not (nor have been) an Auditor for a Certifying body.

It's just my opinion.

Randy · Feb 4, 2009

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

qualitymanager said:
Let me throw in a disclaimer: I am not (nor have been) an Auditor for a Certifying body.

It's just my opinion.

But I'd wager you probably know Sean Victor or know of him.........

Back to Management Review........based on the procedure I see the requirement and your procedure could be met (conformance achieved) if you had a review on Jan 1st @ 8AM and another review on the same day @2PM.

Procedures written like the one provided demonstrate that management will only be interested, or at least feign interest on 2 occasions during a 365 day year.

Stijloor · Feb 4, 2009

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

noboost4you said:
We state in our Quality Manual the following:
• Management review meetings are conducted at the minimum of two times per year to determine the continuing suitability, adequacy and effectiveness of the quality management system in meeting the requirements of ISO 9001:2000, customer requirements and the stated quality policy.
• Additional management review meetings may be scheduled by management, as necessary.
• The Vice President/MR and/or Quality Assurance Manager determine the date of the management review meeting.

Our next internal audit is in March and our surveillance audit is in April. We haven't had a complete Management Review Meeting since September 2008. Will we get written up for not having a complete management review meeting this year prior to the audits? We state we will have a minimum of two per year and not necessarily state we will have them before our scheduled audits.

What does everyone think?

Thanks

Do the managers only meet twice a year? I'll bet they have regular meetings, talking about all kinds of business/operational activities. If they do, why could those meetings not be considered "Management Review?" Just keep track of topics discussed, decisions made regarding the business, and you should be OK. Why "Management Review" became an ISO thing just to pass an audit is beyond me... :frust:

Stijloor.

JaneB · Feb 4, 2009

Re: Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Au

Stijloor said:
Do the managers only meet twice a year? I'll bet they have regular meetings, talking about all kinds of business/operational activities.... Why "Management Review" became an ISO thing just to pass an audit is beyond me...

Me too.

Any idea of tying 'management review' to your external audit schedule defeats the purpose and aim of the Standard. :nope:

Frequency of Management Review Meetings pre- and post- Internal & Surveillance Audits

noboost4you

AndyN

Moved On

noboost4you

AndyN

Moved On

qualitymanager

noboost4you

qualitymanager

Randy

Stijloor

JaneB

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