Special characteristics symbols in work instruction - For whom?

Peters

Quite Involved in Discussions
Special characteristics symbols in work instruction - for whom is this information?
In my opinion it is information for line personnel. Line personnel have to know what is important. But... Sometimes quality engineers or process engineers say it's information for them (for engineers) - It's information for them about important stations. And line personnel don't need to know what is triangle in the circle...
What do you think about this?
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
Re: Special characteristics symbols - for whom?

Special characteristics symbols in work instruction - for whom is this information?
In my opinion it is information for line personnel. Line personnel have to know what is important. But... Sometimes quality engineers or process engineers say it's information for them (for engineers) - It's information for them about important stations. And line personnel don't need to know what is triangle in the circle...
What do you think about this?

Everyone in the process must know what these symbols mean. I always look at these symbols as a "raised flag" that draws attention to its significance and due care that is required to ensure that process/product variation is kept to a minimum.

Stijloor.
 
T

trainerbob

The more people know about what they are doing the better job they can do for the customer. It is the customer that is important, not the continuing preservation of someone's "kingdom".
 

Peters

Quite Involved in Discussions
Re: Special characteristics symbols - for whom?

Everyone in the process must know what these symbols mean. I always look at these symbols as a "raised flag" that draws attention to its significance and due care that is required to ensure that process/product variation is kept to a minimum.

Stijloor.

Problem is because in Poland line personnel very often don't know what is triangle in circle in their instructions. They have trainings but they can't say anything sensible about "what does it mean".
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
Re: Special characteristics symbols - for whom?

Problem is because in Poland line personnel very often don't know what is triangle in circle in their instructions. They have trainings but they can't say anything sensible about "what does it mean".

Peters,

Trust me, this is not limited to personnel in Poland. When folks are trained in the use of control plans and work instructions, some time should be spend explaining what the symbols mean, and how these characteristics will affect the Customer. In fact, ISO/TS requires that personnel understands the impact of nonconformities on the customer.

6.2.2.3 Training on the job
The organization shall provide on-the-job training for personnel in any new or modified job affecting product quality, including contract or agency personnel. Personnel whose work can affect quality shall be informed about the consequences to the customer of nonconformity to quality requirements.

Emphasis mine.

Stijloor.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Trusted Information Resource
Re: Special characteristics symbols - for whom?

Special characteristics symbols in work instruction - for whom is this information?
In my opinion it is information for line personnel. Line personnel have to know what is important. But... Sometimes quality engineers or process engineers say it's information for them (for engineers) - It's information for them about important stations. And line personnel don't need to know what is triangle in the circle...
What do you think about this?

Here's what the standard says:
TS 16949 said:
7.3.2.3 Special characteristics
The organization shall identify special characteristics and... identify process control documents including drawings, FMEAs, control plans, and operator instructions with the customer’s special characteristic symbol or the organization’s equivalent symbol or notation
It says operator instructions, not engineer instructions.
Problem is because in Poland line personnel very often don't know what is triangle in circle in their instructions. They have trainings but they can't say anything sensible about "what does it mean".
I don't think that it's a problem specific to Poland. It's a company-specific problem that I've seen in companies in other countries as well.

If the operators don't know what the symbols mean, it defeats the whole purpose of having them there. If they've been trained, but still don't understand the meaning, then clearly the training was ineffective.
 

Peters

Quite Involved in Discussions
Re: Special characteristics symbols - for whom?

Here's what the standard says:

It says operator instructions, not engineer instructions.

If the operators don't know what the symbols mean, it defeats the whole purpose of having them there. If they've been trained, but still don't understand the meaning, then clearly the training was ineffective.

I agree with you. But sometimes it's difficult to explain this auditee...
 
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