Process Approach Audit Plan - What a Process Approach Audit Plan Looks Like

B

buffalo

Hi everybody,

I have read "internal audit" threads carefully, but could not find information I need :nope: .
My problem was that, my company are transacting QMS from ISO 9001 compliance to TS 16949:2002. I am responsible for preparing internal audit plan. In the past, as following ISO 9001, I prepared audit plan using requirement approach (like the one drawn by our CB); i.e we went through departments one by one and check if they satisfy applicable standard requirements. I know that this approach is not acceptable by TS 16949, instead we have to use process approach audit. Currently I haven't got any idea of how process approach audit plan looks like. If anyone help by showing a sample of TS internal audit plan or a plan of certification body. It would be much appreciated if you can brief explain different from ISO audit plan.
:thanx:
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Leader
Admin
Re: Process approach audit plan

Buffalo,

Are you familiar with the Tracing technique used by some auditors? Picking a record (completed corrective action, purchase order, calibration record, etc.) allows you to trace backwards (or forwards) through the primary and support processes associated with that record. What you are evaluating is the effectiveness of the interrelationships between processes, people and other system components. In reality, many folks have been practicing a process approach to auditing but just haven’t thought of it in those terms.

Regards,

Kevin
 
B

buffalo

Re: Process approach audit plan - What process approach audit plan looks like

Thank you very much, Kevin.
I understand the "tracing" techniques and actually I use it every time doing internal audit of ISO 9001-based QMS. As we perceived process approach is not a must by ISO 9001 so to make an audit schedule we put all related departments on a timetable like: 08h00 to 10h00 (Engineering dept), 10h00 to 12h00 (QA dept); and it is accepted. However, my friend who work for local CB told me that schedule no longer accepted by TS and we needed to use process approach. And I wonder how many processes I need to put on the schedule so that it is accepted by CB. Because I understand that processes are defined by the organization and they might be different from CB's or IATF's. That why, I really need a look at a sample audit schedule to be confident.
:thanx:
 

antoine.dias

Quite Involved in Discussions
Process approach audit plan - What process approach audit plan looks like

The internal processes are defined by the organisation itself, so there is nothing difficult to it.
I have attached an example

Hope this helps,

Antoine
 

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B

buffalo

Re: Process approach audit plan - What process approach audit plan looks like

Thank you very much, Antoine!
 

AndyN

Moved On
Re: Process approach audit plan - What process approach audit plan looks like

The internal audits have to be 'performed' using a 'process approach'. IMHO, this doesn't mean putting a whole calendar for the year together - that's not required and doesn't meet the 'status and importance' requirement. Your individual planning for a specific audit should show how you've addressed 'process'. A calendar of audits doesn't do this!

Look in ISO 9004 for guidance - it says scheduling should be flexible to allow input from other parties (like management) so putting a whole year's worth of audits together may satisfy your registrar, but you'll be costantly changing it and everyone who sees it will think you can't make a decision and stick with it!!

I have used the 'football' checklist on a number of audits with success. It is set up for a manufacturing process, but could be modified for other processes. Take a look and give it a try. The auditors I teach and work with like it a lot.........

Andy
 

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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
Re: Process approach audit plan - What process approach audit plan looks like

... :D ...why Andy, I'm proud of you. You have created a (modified) Turtle Diagram! :mg:

And a pretty good version of one, at that.

Thanks.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
Re: Process approach audit plan - What process approach audit plan looks like

buffalo said:
Thank you very much, Kevin.
I understand the "tracing" techniques and actually I use it every time doing internal audit of ISO 9001-based QMS. As we perceived process approach is not a must by ISO 9001 so to make an audit schedule we put all related departments on a timetable like: 08h00 to 10h00 (Engineering dept), 10h00 to 12h00 (QA dept); and it is accepted. However, my friend who work for local CB told me that schedule no longer accepted by TS and we needed to use process approach. And I wonder how many processes I need to put on the schedule so that it is accepted by CB. Because I understand that processes are defined by the organization and they might be different from CB's or IATF's. That why, I really need a look at a sample audit schedule to be confident.
:thanx:


Both ISO 9001 and TS-16949 expect you to audit and manage by processes.

You defien the processes in your system in such a way that they cover all the activities you perform, and cover all the required sections of the standard.
 

AndyN

Moved On
Re: Process approach audit plan - What process approach audit plan looks like

hjilling said:
...:D ...why Andy, I'm proud of you. You have created a (modified) Turtle Diagram!:mg:

And a pretty good version of one, at that.

Thanks.
:eek:
:lmao:

Andy
 

CalRich

Involved In Discussions
Re: Process approach audit plan - What process approach audit plan looks like

Both ISO 9001 and TS-16949 expect you to audit and manage by processes.
I'm glad you stated this. Our company hasn't seemed to get the point about process audits and I'm waiting to see what happens during our next external audit. The audit plan consists of just the different departments. Frankly, I think the biggest weaknesses are those processes that move inter-departmentally. A process audit will indicate these weaknesses - just auditing departments will not give you this information.

Anyone know of something to do to force the issue and make our folks say "Hmm.. I think we're doing this wrong!"???
 
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