Do I need to answer Audit Observations?

S

smonsalve

Hi All,

I have a question about audits. Our external auditor last year made 17 observations during the re-certification audit, we answer 13 of those 17 knowing that observations are not required to be answered along with nonconformances. This year the same auditor question us about the non answered observations and I said that we were not going to do anything about them because they were only observations and not nonconformances and the auditor did not like my answer and went ahead and 'upgraded' one of those observations to a nonconformance.
In this year's final report the auditor made this note (in red bold letters) "All observations documented within the report require root cause analysis and corrective action by the company. Actions will be reviewed during next annual audit and failure to address the observation will result nonconformity. Observations are not to be taken as recommendations. These are the area requires improvement to be in compliance with standards requirements".
Can the auditor force us to answer an observation and threaten to write us up for not doing it?:mad::whip:

Regards and thanks for your input.
 

AndyN

Moved On
Re: Do I need to answer obsevations?

Hi All,

I have a question about audits. Our external auditor last year made 17 observations during the re-certification audit, we answer 13 of those 17 knowing that observations are not required to be answered along with nonconformances. This year the same auditor question us about the non answered observations and I said that we were not going to do anything about them because they were only observations and not nonconformances and the auditor did not like my answer and went ahead and 'upgraded' one of those observations to a nonconformance.
In this year's final report the auditor made this note (in red bold letters) "All observations documented within the report require root cause analysis and corrective action by the company. Actions will be reviewed during next annual audit and failure to address the observation will result nonconformity. Observations are not to be taken as recommendations. These are the area requires improvement to be in compliance with standards requirements".
Can the auditor force us to answer an observation and threaten to write us up for not doing it?:mad::whip:

Regards and thanks for your input.

No, is the short answer and, just in case they try to escalate the situation, you should refer back to your agreement with the CB to see what they say about it first. You might also want to be aware of an ANAB communique about so called "soft grading", which is what he appears to have done here, since he "expects" you to respond. If he does, they should have been made into an nc. You could also make the management of his CB aware that he's doing this and you don't intend to be bullied by his comments and actions, citing the ANAB position on soft grading. (I believe it's what they call a "Heads Up", but I can't find a copy.)
 
R

Reg Morrison

Re: Do I need to answer Audit Obsevations?

and went ahead and 'upgraded' one of those observations to a nonconformance.
Did s/he have evidence of a failure? Was a requirement being violated? If not, the issue can not be reported as a nonconformance.

In the accredited certification world, under the ISO 17021 protocol, registrants are not required to respond, much less perform root cause analysis, for things that don't raise to a nonconformance.

The word bullying is appropriate. It looks like the auditor is on a power trip and you need to deflate his/her ego with a tactful dialogue.

Having said that, I would not ignore auditor's feedback just because it does not fit the NC category. I would analyse the reported observations on its merits and, who knows? some might even provide you with a preventive action trigger.
 

Big Jim

Admin
Re: Do I need to answer Audit Obsevations?

You really should protest that finding and most certainly make sure that auditor does not return. He is clearly making up his own rules, and that is never a good thing.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
Re: Do I need to answer Audit Obsevations?

It's a load of garbage,,,And it doesn't matter what an auditor likes or dislikes. The auditor has proved that he lacks impartiality so get a new one. You have the right to do so
 
S

smonsalve

Re: Do I need to answer Audit Obsevations?

Thanks to all of you for your input on this issue.
This is the second year we have the same auditor, and since the first time I noticed this auditor was not very knowledgeable when it comes to differentiating an observation from a non-conformance.
I will certainly talk to the CB and make them aware of the situation.
Some of those "observations' are clearly non-conformance, so I see that the auditor is soft-grading us and wants to impose his/her point of view.
 
L

lk2012

Re: Do I need to answer Audit Obsevations?

If it's any consolation to you, the same Auditor can only visit you once more and then you'll be done with them for good.:D At least that's what I was told in my Auditor training.
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
Re: Do I need to answer Audit Obsevations?

Having recognized that some of the so-called Observations were actually nonconformity statements did you take corrective action by invoking your own CARs?
 
R

Reg Morrison

Re: Do I need to answer Audit Obsevations?

this auditor was not very knowledgeable when it comes to differentiating an observation from a non-conformance.
And he works for an accredited registrar? Wow, things are bad when a "professional" auditor does not know such a basic aspect of auditing. This is a nonconforming service and you should be entitled to ask for a refund from the registrar. Until they are hit where it hurts, they won't change.
 

AndyN

Moved On
Re: Do I need to answer Audit Obsevations?

If it's any consolation to you, the same Auditor can only visit you once more and then you'll be done with them for good.:D At least that's what I was told in my Auditor training.

You were mis-informed (unless it was a TS 16949 or AS 91XX course)
 
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