T
tracey
I was wondering what qualifications do you need to train internal auditors?
Internal Auditor training - Qualifications needed to train internal auditors?
D
db
Trainer Requirements
First of all tracey, welcome to the Cove (I forgot to say that on the Work Instruction thread!)
The requirement is for
"6.2.1 General
Personnel performing work affecting product quality shall be competent of the basis of appropriate education, training, skills and experience"
Your internal auditors need to be competent. How you achieve that is your decision. It would make sense that whoever trains your internal auditors be competent themselves, but then again, you determine what that means.
The bottom line is it is YOUR system and YOU make the rules needed to make sure the system works!
:thedeal:
First of all tracey, welcome to the Cove (I forgot to say that on the Work Instruction thread!)
The requirement is for
"6.2.1 General
Personnel performing work affecting product quality shall be competent of the basis of appropriate education, training, skills and experience"
Your internal auditors need to be competent. How you achieve that is your decision. It would make sense that whoever trains your internal auditors be competent themselves, but then again, you determine what that means.
The bottom line is it is YOUR system and YOU make the rules needed to make sure the system works!
:thedeal:
T
tracey
I have recently took a five day course ( Lead auditor traning) and have recieved a certificate. Does that make me qualified to train Internal Auditors if I decide to?
D
db
Hard to say. Are you a competent internal auditor? I conducted my first internal auditor training class before I ever conducted an audit. I probably did not do as well as I would have with some experience. Also, do you have anyone who could assist you? I had my boss who was infinitely more qualified than I.
The ultimate question, is after you trained them would they be able to perform? It is okay if you had to audit with them until they gained the competence needed to go on their own (that could still be part of the training).
The ultimate question, is after you trained them would they be able to perform? It is okay if you had to audit with them until they gained the competence needed to go on their own (that could still be part of the training).
K
KenS
I took the ASQ Auditing class and the certification test in 1995, then went on an audit with an auditor from QMI. Boy, did I feel dumb. 
Enough of that.
ASQ has a CD available on auditor training, a self paced course. I think it might be a little expensive, but then I'm a cheap ***. It might be a good idea if you want to train a number of auditors.
Enough of that.ASQ has a CD available on auditor training, a self paced course. I think it might be a little expensive, but then I'm a cheap ***. It might be a good idea if you want to train a number of auditors.
T
tracey
We are all new at this here but I currently am doing the audits with the Internal Auditors. All of which right now have cerificates but do not feel cofident. I want to have a couple more auditors.
Welcome to the Cove!
Hi, Tracey!
Like Dave B said, it is up to your Organization to determine what constitutes a "qualified" and "competent" auditor.
When I first started at my current position - just over one year ago - I was appalled at the state of the Internal Audit system! These were people who had taken the 2-day off-site course and deemed "qualified". The caliber of their findings (or lack thereof in some cases) was shocking for me to see.
I can not say who should train your Internal Auditors...only your organization can determine that. You need to sit down and think about what the purpose is of an Internal Audit and how your organization benefits from them.
You should think about what sorts of results you hope to gain from Internal Audits, too. In my case, I enjoy receiving findings from an Internal Audit - it means there's one less thing for my External Auditor to harp on. I am pleased when my auditors assign me an Opportunity for Improvement - they see ways of doing things that I have yet to think about.
Training Internal Auditors, in my opinion, involves more than just being able to parrot off the Standard. You should know the audit process (especially how it applies to you), you should know auditing techniques, you should be aware of potential roadblocks and how to overcome them.
If you feel that your audits are providing a benefit to the organization, why shouldn't you be "competent" to train your Internal Auditors?
Out of curiousity (I noticed your company size is 50), how many auditors do you want? I tend to compare my Internal Auditors to a stable of thoroughbreds. I would rather a few excellent horses, than a whole herd of mediocre ones.
(granted, they don't usually enjoy being compared to horses)
Hi, Tracey!
Like Dave B said, it is up to your Organization to determine what constitutes a "qualified" and "competent" auditor.
When I first started at my current position - just over one year ago - I was appalled at the state of the Internal Audit system! These were people who had taken the 2-day off-site course and deemed "qualified". The caliber of their findings (or lack thereof in some cases) was shocking for me to see.
I can not say who should train your Internal Auditors...only your organization can determine that. You need to sit down and think about what the purpose is of an Internal Audit and how your organization benefits from them.
You should think about what sorts of results you hope to gain from Internal Audits, too. In my case, I enjoy receiving findings from an Internal Audit - it means there's one less thing for my External Auditor to harp on. I am pleased when my auditors assign me an Opportunity for Improvement - they see ways of doing things that I have yet to think about.
Training Internal Auditors, in my opinion, involves more than just being able to parrot off the Standard. You should know the audit process (especially how it applies to you), you should know auditing techniques, you should be aware of potential roadblocks and how to overcome them.
If you feel that your audits are providing a benefit to the organization, why shouldn't you be "competent" to train your Internal Auditors?
Out of curiousity (I noticed your company size is 50), how many auditors do you want? I tend to compare my Internal Auditors to a stable of thoroughbreds. I would rather a few excellent horses, than a whole herd of mediocre ones.
(granted, they don't usually enjoy being compared to horses)
D
David Mullins
ISO v BUSINESS
Tracey:
ISO9001:
If you've got a certificate, and you give them a certificate, they're qualified.
BUSINESS SENSE:
You're a qualified and competent auditor AND a qualified and competent trainer. The training then needs to include practical competency, and written, assessment of the would-be auditors. Once they've got their certificate, scope the audits so they start off easy. Help them with their checklist development, or provide the checklists and explain what the questions mean. A lot of this is best done with the internal audit group, so everyone's getting the same information.
Personally I've found putting people through externally provided internal Quality Audit training is a waste of time, and the certified punters have no idea what they're supposed to do, so save time, money and confusion and do it yourself.
There have been many (and long) threads on this debate.
You 're new to the circus so take plenty of time with your internal auditors and provide them with lots of support. We've all been through the cycle where there aren't enough auditors and/or they're too busy (tired of the run-around) to do the audits, etc, etc. So take the time and get them right - there will be dividends (in terms of retaining them and their learned skills and knowledge).
ENJOY!
(Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha .........)
Tracey:
ISO9001:
If you've got a certificate, and you give them a certificate, they're qualified.
BUSINESS SENSE:
You're a qualified and competent auditor AND a qualified and competent trainer. The training then needs to include practical competency, and written, assessment of the would-be auditors. Once they've got their certificate, scope the audits so they start off easy. Help them with their checklist development, or provide the checklists and explain what the questions mean. A lot of this is best done with the internal audit group, so everyone's getting the same information.
Personally I've found putting people through externally provided internal Quality Audit training is a waste of time, and the certified punters have no idea what they're supposed to do, so save time, money and confusion and do it yourself.
There have been many (and long) threads on this debate.
You 're new to the circus so take plenty of time with your internal auditors and provide them with lots of support. We've all been through the cycle where there aren't enough auditors and/or they're too busy (tired of the run-around) to do the audits, etc, etc. So take the time and get them right - there will be dividends (in terms of retaining them and their learned skills and knowledge).
ENJOY!
(Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha .........)
Last edited by a moderator:
M
M Greenaway
Tracey
Your answer lies in ISO10011-2, which might now be ISO19011. This document defines qualification criteria for internal auditors, and basically describes a mixture of formal education, qualifications, and experience - and certain personal attributes.
Your answer lies in ISO10011-2, which might now be ISO19011. This document defines qualification criteria for internal auditors, and basically describes a mixture of formal education, qualifications, and experience - and certain personal attributes.
