Internal Auditor vs. Lead Auditor courses (IRCA certified) - What are the differences

Hello

I work for a large company and I responsible for ISO and internal audit. We have impemented 9001, 14001 and OHSAS standards.

I would like to know what is the difference between course for internal and lead auditor (IRCA certified).
Is it worth to do this course for internal audit ?

What is your opinion ?

Best Regards
Greg

Re: Internal or lead auditor (certified)

I have not taken an internal auditor course at a place like SAI Global, but I took Lead Auditor courses for both 9001/TS16949 and 14001.

My understanding of the difference is that the lead auditor course is intended to teach how to manage the audit and not just conduct one. That is, how to hold the opening and closing meetings too, versus asking questions and writing nonconformance requests as a member of an audit team.

Re: Internal or lead auditor (certified)

I am assuming that you may be the management rep for your company. That being the case a good reason as an internal auditor to take the Lead Auditor course and recieve certification is that if you are asked to escort or be a part of the meetings during certification/external audits you may have the same certs, training as the lead auditor and other auditors conducting the audit. This helps when there are differences of opinion in the non-conformities issued, etc. And you may have noticed there have been some questions about external auditors in the forum. Most in my opinion do a wonderful job, a very few add their "opinion". BTW, the course is just one more day and I suspect a few dollars more.

PS If you are not currently the management rep, it may help with future advancement within your company (you will not have to do all of the training again for just one day of new information).

Re: Internal or lead auditor (certified)

The things you mention are on the LA course Jennifer but they should also be covered on an IA course too. My explanation of the main difference is that the IA course trains people how to audit part of your own system (e.g. a procedure/process/department) whilst the LA course trains people how to audit the whole of someone else's system.

There is much more emphasis on the standard on the LA course and the whole subject is deeper and wider than for the IA course. The IRCA IA course is 14 hours duration whilst the LA course is 40 hours.

The LA course also has a far more rigorous assessment - namely, a 2 hour written examination at the end along with continuous assessment.

Some members of this forum will argue that internal auditors should not attend the LA course but it is my belief that at least 1 member of the company should be trained to this level. But, unless you have reasonable experience, I would consider attending the IA course first, then do the LA course. You will find it much easier and get more from the course.

Re: Internal Auditor vs. Lead Auditor courses (IRCA certified) - What are the differe

I'm sure it varies from one provider to another so there is no single answer.

I have taught both. I teach the two day internal audit class much more frequently.

Although the five day lead auditor class is mostly geared toward those who intend on becoming certification body auditors, someone that leads internal auditing for a company, particularly a large company, would benefit as well.

The two or three day internal auditor class is intended for those that will be internal auditors and does not reach into nearly as much about what a certification body auditor also needs to know.

That said, the biggest difference I see in content is that the standard is covered more thoroughly in the lead auditor class, with much more interaction between students and the teacher with much more time spent in case studies and scenarios. Those who take the five day class will come away with a deeper understanding of the standard.

Re: Internal Auditor vs. Lead Auditor courses (IRCA certified) - What are the differe

Greg_PL said:

Hello

I work for a large company and I responsible for ISO and internal audit. We have impemented 9001, 14001 and OHSAS standards.

I would like to know what is the difference between course for internal and lead auditor (IRCA certified).
Is it worth to do this course for internal audit ?

What is your opinion ?

Best Regards
Greg

Click to expand...

Internal auditor Course is for Profession, &
Lead auditor for Business.

Re: Internal Auditor vs. Lead Auditor courses (IRCA certified) - What are the differe

Greg_PL said:

Hello

I work for a large company and I responsible for ISO and internal audit. We have impemented 9001, 14001 and OHSAS standards.

I would like to know what is the difference between course for internal and lead auditor (IRCA certified).
Is it worth to do this course for internal audit ?

What is your opinion ?

Best Regards
Greg

Click to expand...

Before you take ANY Lead Auditor course, if you have not dealt with any of the Standards or never audited, you may consider an interpretation course or Internal Auditor course first.

As an instructor, I deal with people who have been sent to the Lead Auditor course because management has appointed someone a Lead Auditor although they have no experience. While I try to help as much as possible, these people have to understand that I have to maintain a schedule and not slow the class for the more advanced students. I often offer to stay after class to assist those; however, there is no requirement for that.

Any IRCA certified Lead Auditor course should have some pre requirements such as mentioned.

MOST IRCA certified Lead Auditor courses are INTENDED to teach someone how to do third party audits (although first and second party audit reasons and requirements are taught).

I've actually had a person not show up the second day because the boss sent them without any prior experience.

While the Lead Auditor certification looks good on your resume, KEEP IN MIND. Courses are intended to give you exposure to audits. They are NOT intended to send you back to be a "competent" auditor out of the course.

Auditing takes time, experience, and more experience.

Rather than focus on Lead Auditor VS Internal Auditor, focus instead on wether or not you can get audit experience under the guidance of an already experienced auditor. It is this experience that will add to your competence, not the additional two days of a Lead Auditor course and test.

Since you can take the IRCA certified Lead Auditor certificate, with some additional audits and peddle to any certification body, I caution EVERYONE on the first day of the class. "I will NOT be responsible for putting any more incompetent auditors on the street".

Re: Internal Auditor vs. Lead Auditor courses (IRCA certified) - What are the differe

John Martinez said:

Before you take ANY Lead Auditor course, if you have not dealt with any of the Standards or never audited, you may consider an interpretation course or Internal Auditor course first.

Click to expand...

Excellent advice, and I strongly agree.
It's like trying to jump straight into a degree course without doing any high school.

Re: Internal Auditor vs. Lead Auditor courses (IRCA certified) - What are the differe

Thank you for your reply.

I think I have an experience as internal auditor and management representative. I know all standards which we have implemented, especially ISO 9001. I prepared my company (current and previous) several times to certification audits, customer audits and I coordinate internal auditors activities.
But I wondered what the difference between these courses was (only the quantities of audit cases of different approach to the audit).
I have to present audit results during management review and maybe lead auditor course give me another poin of view about audit, more interesting for the management ?

Best Regards
Greg

Re: Internal Auditor vs. Lead Auditor courses (IRCA certified) - What are the differe

Greg_PL said:

Thank you for your reply.

I think I have an experience as internal auditor and management representative. I know all standards which we have implemented, especially ISO 9001. I prepared my company (current and previous) several times to certification audits, customer audits and I coordinate internal auditors activities.
But I wondered what the difference between these courses was (only the quantities of audit cases of different approach to the audit).
I have to present audit results during management review and maybe lead auditor course give me another point of view about audit, more interesting for the management ?

Best Regards
Greg

Click to expand...

Sometimes it helps to look at the course specifics.

Here are examples:

Lead Auditor Course.

Internal Auditor Course.

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with this training organization.

Hope this helps.

Stijloor.