AS9101, Revision E is available for Purchase

This notification is to inform you that document: AS9101E - Quality Management Systems Audit Requirements for Aviation, Space, and Defense Organizations has been published.

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Any word on how soon it will be implemented?

Big Jim said:

Any word on how soon it will be implemented?

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I suspect that once Plexus completes it's training and after auditor seminar is incorporated and instructions are given... somewhere between next month and July?

Just guessing but we will all find out soon.

dsanabria said:

I suspect that once Plexus completes it's training and after auditor seminar is incorporated and instructions are given... somewhere between next month and July?

Just guessing but we will all find out soon.

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Didn't they learn their lesson about using Plexus last time around? Maybe they can rein Plexus in this time.

Care to explain what you mean by that, Big Jim??

Big Jim said:

Any word on how soon it will be implemented?

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Just learned that the standard is not available in electronic format.... for now!

kiwisfly said:

Care to explain what you mean by that, Big Jim??

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Plexus trainers introduced AS9100 auditors to concepts that are not requirements to AS9100 or AS9101 when training was developed and provided with the introduction of AS9100C and AS9101D.

For example they were teaching that auditees had to have turtle charts to explain their processes and the the PEAR was required to be used on internal audits. There was more. When this was going on there was a lot of buzz about it.

Evidently Plexus trainers were bringing some of their automotive concepts with them and teaching that it was part of the AS9100 requirements.

Maybe they have learned better.

dsanabria said:

Just learned that the standard is not available in electronic format.... for now!

Click to expand...

UPDATE!!! it is available to download - 70.00 US

Big Jim said:

Plexus trainers introduced AS9100 auditors to concepts that are not requirements to AS9100 or AS9101 when training was developed and provided with the introduction of AS9100C and AS9101D.

For example they were teaching that auditees had to have turtle charts to explain their processes and the the PEAR was required to be used on internal audits. There was more. When this was going on there was a lot of buzz about it.

Evidently Plexus trainers were bringing some of their automotive concepts with them and teaching that it was part of the AS9100 requirements.

Maybe they have learned better.

Click to expand...

Big Jim,
You must remember that Plexus was selected by IAQG based on their course submitted for consideration with other TPs when AS9101D was released. Yes they do cover turtles but only as a tool that could be used as part of their explanation of the process approach to auditing. Also AS9101 clearly states that it could be used for internal audits per Section 1.2, Note 2 of the Standard and yes Plexus does contain this information in the training materials but again it is not stated as a mandatory requirement.

Plexus did bring some of their automotive background into the development of their training materials and this is not a negative but a positive. When I help companies implement ISO 9001, AS9100, ISO 13485 or any other ISO Standard, I use many parts of other standards to help craft a customized QMS for the company so that it truly meets their needs based on their business model.

My biggest complaint about the Plexus training method was not the Plexus Trainer or the materials but was with the IAQG Rep with the Trainer. In many cases the IAQG Rep made the misstatements about the requirements of AS9101 and the poor Plexus Trainer had to counter these misstatements during the presentation of materials.

Jeff Frost said:

Big Jim,
You must remember that Plexus was selected by IAQG based on their course submitted for consideration with other TPs when AS9101D was released. Yes they do cover turtles but only as a tool that could be used as part of their explanation of the process approach to auditing. Also AS9101 clearly states that it could be used for internal audits per Section 1.2, Note 2 of the Standard and yes Plexus does contain this information in the training materials but again it is not stated as a mandatory requirement.

Plexus did bring some of their automotive background into the development of their training materials and this is not a negative but a positive. When I help companies implement ISO 9001, AS9100, ISO 13485 or any other ISO Standard, I use many parts of other standards to help craft a customized QMS for the company so that it truly meets their needs based on their business model.

My biggest complaint about the Plexus training method was not the Plexus Trainer or the materials but was with the IAQG Rep with the Trainer. In many cases the IAQG Rep made the misstatements about the requirements of AS9101 and the poor Plexus Trainer had to counter these misstatements during the presentation of materials.

Click to expand...

I agree with Big Jim..

- without having inside information - It gave the appearance that Plexus was selected because they had the biggest purse on the table.

- Plexus training on "process Auditing" was complex and not effective (see how many people had / have to retest)

- Samples used for teaching were not relevant to Aerospace. In fact, The flow process / Quality Manual samples were not easy to follow. Note: I have been auditing small and large companies for over 10 years and I have not seeing anything like what they were presenting in Aerospace. I have been in Aerospace for over 45 years - (including Air Force).

- The training day was too long - 12 hrs a day makes it very difficult to retain information.

- Test was meant to fail people - not to gather information on retention or knowledge of material - see the percentage of re-take.

- The answer were tricky, vague and confusing, specially when there are multiple answer for a question and the difference is on word.

- If you got a wrong answer on the test - you didn't know which one you got wrong so that you could go back and relearn the material. They left you with a false sense of - I must be correct feeling.

- Course was about turtle diagram / and flow chart. Very little on PEARS and minimal time on the standard.

- Interview process ... I am still trying to figure it out - very secretive.

- It was noted that if you didn't write a Major NCR on the test / exercises - you were wrong.

For additional information why Plexus did not do a good service to auditors - see other links on this website.

Just my



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