Heat Treat anaylsis quench cracks - Seeking possible causes

[lday38]

I currently am facing a battle with a heat treat company over quench cracks.
His lab states that the metal has an inlcusion causing a crack in the part. Our labs state that their picture is a scratch and the defect is caused by the oil quench temperture. The more Iread about oil quecnching we both could be contributing to the defect. Any ideas on how to resolve what the root cause is ( noone wants the blame)?
I thought about getting an independent lab for failure anaylsis. I need to show authoritive and independence. Any other ideas?

[Wes Bucey]

In Reply to Parent Post by lday38

I currently am facing a battle with a heat treat company over quench cracks.
His lab states that the metal has an inlcusion causing a crack in the part. Our labs state that their picture is a scratch and the defect is caused by the oil quench temperture. The more Iread about oil quecnching we both could be contributing to the defect. Any ideas on how to resolve what the root cause is ( noone wants the blame)?
I thought about getting an independent lab for failure anaylsis. I need to show authoritive and independence. Any other ideas?

Depending on the industry and the final use of the product (life, health, safety?), it is important to get to the real reason for the cracks observed after quenching in a heat treating process.

I can tell you from experience that when you get into a "my thing is better than your thing" shouting match, it is time to call in a respected referee to deliver the best verdict.

There are "Quality" ways to approach this issue with your supplier and "Jerk" ways to do it. If I have to spell out the difference between the two ways, you probably need to hire a consultant to do your negotiating for you because you have too much emotion tied up in assessing "blame" versus finding out the "truth."

From a Quality standpoint, of course, the goal is the truth (root cause) and how to prevent the event from recurring. Any other effort toward pointing fingers is pure muda (waste) and needs to be purged from the process.

WHO ARE THE REFEREES?
One of the things I do is ask my supplier who he respects as the greatest expert on the topic and why. If there is no obvious tie (blood or money) between them, go with the recommendation. Stress always that you want the truth and to cure the problem and that no one will get fired over the issue. Work out a deal with the supplier to split the cost of the expert evenly - DO NOT try to say anything like "loser pays" or you will be in the Jerk category.