Turtle diagrams are no longer acceptable by ISO? IATF? IAOB?

[Totumfrog]

One of our sister companies just recently had a consultant group come in and review the company for ISO 9001:2000 compliance and gap analysis. One of the consultants who previously worked for the registration company that they use has told them that as of a few weeks ago, turtle diagrams are no longer acceptable by ISO? IATF? IAOB? Has anyone heard anything similiar or is this just a consultant who is trying to get some $ for redeveloping the turtle diagrams into process flows?

[Wes Bucey]

Originally Posted by Totumfrog

One of our sister companies just recently had a consultant group come in and review the company for ISO 9001:2000 compliance and gap analysis. One of the consultants who previously worked for the registration company that they use has told them that as of a few weeks ago, turtle diagrams are no longer acceptable by ISO? IATF? IAOB? Has anyone heard anything similiar or is this just a consultant who is trying to get some $ for redeveloping the turtle diagrams into process flows?

Merely ask him to give you the citation so you can see the press release or regulation which backs up his statement. If he's selling a remedy, he darn well better be able to cite chapter and verse of the disease!

[Cari Spears]

Originally Posted by Totumfrog

One of the consultants who previously worked for the registration company that they use has told them that as of a few weeks ago, turtle diagrams are no longer acceptable by ISO? IATF? IAOB?

Wes is correct. I'm curious though - acceptable for what? What are they using a turtle diagram for that this "consultant" says is not acceptable?

[Kevin H]

I was at AIAG for training in combining ISO 14000 & ISO/TS 16949 the week ending April 15, 2005. The trainer for the course was still using and promoting "Turtle Diagrams" for identifying process interactions. I'd consider it highly unlikely that he would have done so if they were no longer acceptable to AIAG.

[Totumfrog]

Good idea Wes. Cari, the consultant was suggesting that the turtle diagrams were no longer acceptable for process mapping. Kevin, thank you also. If the AIAG training includes turtle diagrams, this consultant must be all wet.

Thank you again everyone. I love this cove!!!!

[D.Scott]

Turtle diagrams are quality tools. They have been accepted for a long time in the quality industry. Saying they are no longer acceptable is like saying control charts are no longer acceptable.

I too went to a recent auditor training class conducted at AIAG in Michigan. The turtle diagram was a central part of the class. If a consultant is telling you they are no longer acceptable and he can't show you something solid I would avoid him like the plague.

Dave

[Howard Atkins]

As Turtle diagrams were never required but rather a tool and a guide they cannot be unacceptable.
Your consultant would appear to be unacceptable
This appears to be unanimous

[wcsf]

I totally agree with Howard that instead of turtle diagram is no longer acceptable, the consultant he him/herself is unacceptable. Your sister company should "dispose" him/her off.