Is TS 16949 going to be Obsoleted by 2008?

[Marc]

I was speaking with an old clent which, like many, hired Entela as their registrar years ago but are choosing different registrars due to their dissatisfaction with Intertek. This client chose Smithers.

This client is QS-9000 registered and is only Tier 1 to Visteon for service parts. They did the QS-9000 dance because of customers like Valeo requiring it. This client has reviewed contracts and does not see any TS 16949 requirements.

The Smithers auditor told this client they should NOT pursue TS 16949 registration because supposedly in 2006 the TC committee is "...expected to meet and announce the demise of TS 16949...".

Anyone else heard this?

[Wes Bucey]

This would certainly be the earliest notice of a rumor - I doubt the agenda is even set, yet. Wishful thinking?

[D.Scott]

We are also clients of Smithers and although we are also not pursuing 16949 I have heard no official statement that 16949 would be gone in 2006.

I have had numerous discussions with auditors who all seem to see writing on the wall that there are many reservations about 16949 and they MAY NOT ratify it. Due to the way ISO is structured (?), the TS must be ratified by 2006 or it cannot become a standard. One opinion is if it isn't ratified, the US Big Three will revert to a QS-9000 style system specifically for the US auto industry.

To my knowledge, this is all speculation and there has been no official release on the subject. It would obviously be made known to the registrars before the rest of us so anything is possible.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is the auditor may have been repeating rumors and we should all proceed with the assumption that 16949 is alive and well until it is announced officially. I certainly agree with the advice that your client shouldn't pursue TS16949, but not for the reason stated.

Dave

[Marc]

Wes, That's what I'm trying to figure out. I haven't heard a thing. But back in the late 1980's I knew about TS 16949 before it was made public that there wold even be such a thing from several friends who were in the 'inside circle'. I don't have contact with any of them any more (all are retired or moved to parts unknown, so to speak) so they can't help, but I do know many times these things are 'planned' early and nothing is made public for a year or two so it wouldn't surprise me.

Like I said - Just wondering if anyone else had heard the same 'rumour'. Supposedly TS 16949 will be 'retired' and companies will have to do ISO 9001 with customer specific requirements.

I will say it will not surprise me if TS 16949 is obsoleted.

Dave - Thanks for the detailed info. It sounds like that may be the scoop is.

[Valeri]

The last I heard from our auditor (registrar) TS was NOT ratified. In fact the rumor he heard was there may be a Q4 in the works, Ford, Chrysler, GM and Toyota - the big 3 emulating the Toyota production system. Should be interesting to sit back and watch.

[Wes Bucey]

If obsolescence (actually "non-ratification") is in the wind, the AIAG folk sure don't act like it. Today's news release:

ISO/TS 16949:2002 Implementation Conference: Hear representatives from the International Automotive Task Force (IATF), the International Automotive Oversight Bureau (IAOB) and other industry and technical experts present best practices and case studies on ISO/TS 16949:2002 implementation at this conference on June 16-17 at the Sawmill Creek Hotel & Conference Center in Huron, Ohio. Sessions will focus on customer specifics; layered process audits; internal audits and the process approach; the impact of the rules on the supplier; and more. The second day of the conference will feature overviews of the new PPAP Fourth Edition and the new SPC Second Edition, as well as a special session on FMEA. To register, please contact AIAG customer service at (248) 358-3003 or register online at www.aiag.org.

[António Vieira]

Under ISO rules a Technical specification is only good for three years, with one extension. So, I heard that ISO is waiting for 2006 for new ISO 9001 and then updating ISO/TS 16949:2002.
In my humble point of view, it will be walking backwards for Europe’s automotive industry if this standard will be “retired” and we have to go back to QS-9000.

[Sidney Vianna]

In Reply to Parent Post by António Vieira

Under ISO rules a Technical specification is only good for three years, with one extension. So, I heard that ISO is waiting for 2006 for new ISO 9001 and then updating ISO/TS 16949:2002.
In my humble point of view, it will be walking backwards for Europe’s automotive industry if this standard will be “retired” and we have to go back to QS-9000.

I guess the rumour has to do with the fact that, according to what Antonio mentioned, under the ISO Rules, a ISO/TS document has to be ractified after 3 years. So, I assume that TS16949:2002 life could be extended by another 3 years.
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/stdsdevelo...es/iso_ts.html

ISO/TS Technical Specification

A normative document representing the technical consensus within an ISO committee

The way it is done

a) A TC/SC may decide that a particular work item should result in publication of a technical specification. Normally this decision should be agreed at the outset, i.e. simultaneously with approval of the NP. The text is developed through the preparatory and committee stages at the end of which the text shall be submitted for a three month vote by the P-members of the committee to approve publication of the document as a technical specification. Acceptance of the document requires approval by 2/3 of the P-members. If the acceptance criterion is satisfied the document shall be sent to the Central Secretariat for publication as an ISO/TS.

b) In cases in which a committee had decided to produce an International Standard, but subsequently discovered that there was insufficient support for the publication of a standard, the committee may agree, by the above process, to publish the document as a technical specification.

c) Any P-member or category A or D-liaison organization of a committee may propose that an existing document be considered for adoption as a technical specification. The process for approval is as described in a). NB: A-type liaison: participation by an organization in a TC or SC which can make an effective contribution to the work of the committee. D-type liaison: participation at the working group level only or contribution to a specific project

NOTES

1. As defined above, technical specifications essentially replace the existing type 1 and type 2 technical reports. (As described later, this latter type of publication is retained for purely informative documents – formerly, type 3 technical reports.)
2. Technical specifications may be processed in one language only.
3. Competing technical specifications offering different technical solutions are possible provided that they do not conflict with existing International Standards. (A TC/SC may decide to revise an ISO standard to allow conflicting technical specifications.)
4. Technical specifications shall be reviewed at least every three years to decide either to confirm the technical specification for a further three years, revise the technical specification, process it further to become an International Standard or withdraw the technical specification. After six years, a technical specification shall either be converted into an International Standard or be withdrawn.
5. ISO member bodies may adopt technical specifications and publish them as documents having the same level of authority as the ISO/TS.