The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Philosophy, Gurus, Controversy and Evolution


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27th February 1999, 12:28 PM
Don Winton's Avatar
Don Winton Don Winton is offline
dWizard

Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Tullahoma, TN
Age: 53
 
Posts: 475
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Karma Power: 63
Karma: 488
Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.
Lightbulb Scribes and Gladiators - Juran’s Managerial Breakthrough

Quote:
The Belief That Skilled, Intelligent Decisions Are Made by Skilled Educated Professionals May Be the Single Most Erroneous Belief in American Industry.
Taken from Juran’s Managerial Breakthrough

Scribes and Gladiators

There were two kinds of men in the room, gladiators and scribes. The gladiators had just come from the arena, still covered with blood and sweat, still breathing heavily. But the scribes were cool, alert and energetic.

Now there were shown on the screen the pictures of what had gone on in the arena. Oddly, the discussion was limited to pictures of faulty fighting. They had a name for this selection - it was called the “exception principle.”

As these pictures were shown, the scribes would comment sagely, “That thrust was rather weak.” “There you should have advanced.” “That cut was not up to standard.” The gladiators listened and grunted. Now and then, they would try to explain that in the arena there is not time to think of all these things, that blood is slippery, that lions have their own ideas. But it was to no avail.

The gladiators were doomed to defeat. They were now fighting in an arena they did not understand. The weapons now were not the familiar swords and spears; the weapons were numbers, words, rhetoric. As to these weapons, the gladiators were no match for the scribes.

The meeting broke up and each group went back to its station . The scribes retired to the safety of the stadium seats, where they made themselves comfortable and ready to resume counting. The gladiators returned to the hot, hostile floor of the arena. They knew they had suffered defeat at the hands of the glib, clever scribes. But in their hearts, they remained convinced that no one but a gladiator understands the problems of fighting in the arena.

Sound familiar, anyone?

Regards,
Don
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 1st March 1999, 12:13 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is offline
Your Elsmar Cove Host

Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Age: 59
 
Posts: 15,852
Thanks Given to Others: 1,892
Thanked 1,563 Times in 1,016 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 604
Karma: 11544
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Marc Send a message via Skype™ to Marc
Default

Good one - applies to much of life - not just quality.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 1st March 1999, 09:06 AM
Dusty
Unregistered Guest

 
Posts: n/a
Default

Right on the money, Don!

------------------
Dusty Rhoads
(Not the wrestler....8^P)


Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 3rd March 1999, 12:23 PM
Gordon
Unregistered Guest

 
Posts: n/a
Default

Great illustration! How about the Emporer? The Emporer ofen chops the heads (or other body parts) off of his gladiators for not doing what the scribes says.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 3rd March 1999, 05:02 PM
Don Winton's Avatar
Don Winton Don Winton is offline
dWizard

Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Tullahoma, TN
Age: 53
 
Posts: 475
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Karma Power: 63
Karma: 488
Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.
Default

Quote:
Good one - crosses to much of life - not just quality.
Agreed, Marc. Only if more would listen.

I like this particular story because it reminds me, a very humble practitioner, the value of knowing my place. It is not my place to instruct the person performing a job how to do the job. Very valuable when implementing Systems Management Methods (or most other methods, for that matter). If procedures or work instructions are required, a sure ‘kiss of death’ is to try to implement them without the employee’s input. I have seen it happen. Sadly, too many times.

I prefer to see my function somewhat differently (perhaps, wrongly). Explain WHY something is needed, and more often that not, the employee will supply the solution. For example, if I place myself as a scribe, I would explain to the gladiator in terms something like this:

Quote:
Kill the opponent or he will kill you.
Then I would demonstrate the concept of better swords, keener edges, longer spears, steel shields, etc. Explain that if the sword were sharper, the cuts would be more effective. If the spear is longer, his reach is better extended. Then leave it to the gladiator to develop the sharper sword or whatever. You can bet a dead cat that he would be better prepared when he next entered the arena. Get the attention, get the lesson in and then get the point across.

As for the emperor (CEO, President, or whatever title is ‘in’ these days), I offer this:

Quote:
Arrogance in the administration of power always tends to bring the opposite of the desired effect.
I Ching

Regards,
Don
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 8th August 2004, 11:58 PM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is offline
Your Elsmar Cove Host

Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Age: 59
 
Posts: 15,852
Thanks Given to Others: 1,892
Thanked 1,563 Times in 1,016 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 604
Karma: 11544
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Marc Send a message via Skype™ to Marc
Default

This is an old favourite of mine.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Philosophy, Gurus, Controversy and Evolution

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
The Future - G.E.’s Breakthrough Can Put 100 DVDs on a Disc Marc Computer, Cell Phone and Internet News 0 27th April 2009 05:32 PM
How to Train People who have no ISO 9001:2000 Background (managerial level)? swiss_quality Training - Internal, External and Distance Learning 1 10th February 2008 09:06 PM
Phase 7 Procedures for a Managerial Consultation Company MDWEEK Service Industry Specific Topics 7 28th December 2007 12:56 AM
Looking for a breakthrough into the QE field - Is there a place for honesty? student Occupation Discussions 50 3rd August 2006 01:19 AM
Quality Improvement - What are the best tools to initiate breakthrough change? Chander Sekar Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 2 5th June 2001 03:15 AM



The time now is 05:23 PM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts