ASQ Training - Tough competition? Is it fair competition?

[Wes Bucey]

I just received my latest issue of ASQ Wire and noticed a feature article which brought some questions to mind

On-Site Training Topics
Benefits of On-Site Training
(http://www.asq.org/on-site-training/topics/index.html)

If you are training groups of six to twenty-six or more... then ASQ On-Site Training is a cost-effective option. Train your team at your facility on the most current quality developments. There are significant benefits (http://www.asq.org/on-site-training/benefits.html) of bringing ASQ On-Site Training to you.

ASQ offers dozens of training topics (http://www.asq.org/on-site-training/topics/index.html), from auditing to ISO 9001:2000 to Six Sigma... and all can be customized to match your specific training requirements. Take a look at some of the world-class organizations (http://www.asq.org/on-site-training/customer.html) that have brought ASQ On-Site training to their facility...and take a look at what our past clients (http://www.asq.org/on-site-training/testimonial.html) have told us about their experience.

If your organization or team has a training need, tell us about it. Simply submit our online inquiry form (https://secure.asq.org/inhouseinquiry.html) and tell us what you are looking for. It's that simple. If you would prefer to speak directly with our On-Site expert, call Warren Hojnacki at 800-248-1946, ext. 7631.

If you are a consultant, I'm curious at your reaction to ASQ's foray as a not-for-profit into your marketplace.

• Do you welcome or fear the competition?
• Did ASQ invite any of you to participate in its business or is it strictly for "favored insiders"?
• Do any of the list of clients writing testimonials include YOUR clients? Have they written similar testimonials about your work?
• How does the list of topics compare with your list?

If you are NOT a consultant, but a potential purchaser of this service, do you have any comments about this issue?

For anybody:
Want to comment about not-for-profits intruding on for-profit consulting firms?

[IEGeek]

I have never used ASQ for training purposes with my staff - however----

I have used Califiornia Manufacturing Technology Center for training a small group of folks (22 - 29). CMTC is the state budgeted NFP for manufacturing. They were in a bid competition for "my" business with three other consultants on SMED Training and Demand Flow Technology. As their bid was $0.00 they of course won out with the owner.

While their presentation was impressive and chock full of great information, it was a little over the heads of the audience. The audience consisted of 75% factory floor team members from all departments and the rest being office and engineering staff. This was to be an introductory class on implementing an aspect of "Lean Manufacturing" and 75% of the audience was lost. The presenter had an MBA from UC-Irvine and a great presence, however very little real world experience. He was a fantastic presenter, but only followed his "script" that someone else had designed and written.

Had we hired an independent consultant, I think we could have noticed that we were talking over most of the folks and could have immediately changed tactics and presentation ideas within the group.

That would be my fear of hiring ASQ to conduct training - someone fresh out of college would be creating this PowerPoint presentation in an office somewhere and then someone completely different would show up to conduct the presentation and read the "script"

Every manufacturing plant is different, every company culture is different - consultants can adapt to that on the fly, whereas a large company - well you get the idea

Just some thoughts......

[Jennifer Kirley]

In June 2001 I did a federally sponsored research project on the concept of an umbrella organization offering training that consultants currently offer on their own. I proposed that offering better consistency of business model and approach to consulting, as well as umbrella marketing and greater awareness, could help budge state economies by elevating small businesses, which comprise about half the GDP, to a greater level of profitability and growth capability.

So ASQ's model is not new to me, and I don't disapprove of it as a whole but I agree there are a number of critical considerations, among them:

1. The consultants should not be a small core of well traveled professional trainers, but should be local so they can remain available to their trainees for that very important follow through.

2. I think the consultants should own their own operations, but branding and a recognizable business model with its assurance of reliability and accessability seems optimum. Think H & R Block.

3. Given the operators would be more intimately familiar with their clientele and demographic influences, there could be greater flexibility in material and its delivery. While materials could have some consistency, there should be a variety among which to select appropriate depths and applications. NxLeveL is a good example, with several different versions of business planning seminar materials beginning with a set for teenagers.

As it is, ASQ believes it is serving the community by making "expert" training available, but the community is not well served by a trainer that vanishes as soon as the evaluations have been returned.

If ASQ did a better job of marshalling its members and creating a true umbrella organization instead of sticking to a favored, centralized few (which it arguably no doubt deems important to control their quality) I believe both the area consultants and the organization could benefit. In my view they needn't be mutually exclusive.

However, based on my research (the final SBIR report is on my web site) there is a very large knowledge gap among clientele. Most nonmanufacturers don't understand their troubles well enough to recognize there is a pragmatic approach to what they view are unique problems. Hence they don't recognize the potential investment in developing those pragmatic approaches. A massive Catch-22 situation exists, which ASQ needs to address but has so far not managed. The organization will thus continue to compete with independent consultants for the business clients that have enough awareness to recognize need, but still hesitate because they are unsure of value.

[betterlife]

Originally Posted by Wes Bucey

........Want to comment about not-for-profits intruding on for-profit consulting firms?

I am a consultant from India and have a for-profit (FP) consulting firm. I have not had any inteface with ASQ but would like to comment on the issue raised in your message.

There are some organizations in India who advertise about their not-for-profit (NFP) training and consultancy. They do not charge any fee, but their travelling, boarding and lodging expenses (to be borne by the client) are huge. Also they plan their visits as per their scheduled convenience and as per the needs of the client. They select few white-collor senior empolyees to work as their information conduits. They hardly reach the shop-floor working level in the client's organizaion. In the process they prove to be much more costlier than a private FP consultant. In India they do not pose any serious competition to FP consultants.

I, as a FP consultant, welcome healthy competition.

In India there are so many consultans as it is impossible to keep their count. Any individual who gets some knowledge about ISO 9000 starts providing consultancy. To enter and to remain in the market, they lower down their fee to an absurd extent. It has given birth to an unhealthy competition and lowered the quality of consultancy, reflected in documentaion and implementation. They have roped in some certfication agencies who grant across the table certificates. It is sad that some of these agencies have been accredited by world's famous accreditation bodies. Any complaints made to these bodies do not result in any improvement, rather with each passing day they become more bold. Such people and agencies are posing a threat to quality movement in India.

In India, clients generally don't write testimonials. They will no doubt appreciate the work orally.

In short, I will say that I welcome healthy competition, which forces me to further improve the quality of my training and consultancy. I do not welcome such competition under which I have to lowerr down he quality of my services just to get a contract at absurdly low price or no price. I work on the principle of RIGHT CONSULTANCY AT RIGHT PRICE.

[Marc]

The big money is in training. That said I don't expect anything less of the ASQ.

Anyone with comtemporary comments?

[qualityman46]

As a member of ASQ since the early 80's and a quality practitioner for over 20 years I believe that they have lost their focus. Their primary mission should be to support and promote quality through nonprofit activities.

By straying from the original purpose of the organization they jeopardize the credibility of the organization and profession.

This is evidenced by the number of "Certification" programs that ASQ has. They create new certifications because they are revenue generators but I have to question the number of certifications as well as their value. In my opinion this leads to a lack of credibility of the entire certification process. A shame because some certifications like the CQE and CRE and needed.

As a consultant that provides training I object to ASQ competing with me since this is an organization that I helped build. In some cases they have even taken material that was developed by the members at no charge and are now using for paid courses.

In order to become an ASQ Certified trainer you are required to pay a substantial fee up front and then split the profits of the courses with ASQ in exchange for advertising the courses. Because of this practice you are not always getting the best and most qualified trainers. The most qualified see no point in paying ASQ a qualification fee of 10k especially when they take 50% of the course income.

I also object to ASQ using my membership fees to pay for advertising as well as the "ASQ credibility factor" something which I contributed to and help build free of charge.

This is why you have so many "old timers" electing not to renew their membership. ASQ has become a "marketing organization" bent on making a profit unfortunately they are doing this at the expense of the members.

[Randy]

I have no 1st hand experience with ASQ training, though I've met tons of folks who have told me their individual tales. Personally I was told by the ASQ and the primary organization they were using at the time that I was not qualified to deliver training for ISO 9001 and ISO 14001.

[Jim Wynne]

Originally Posted by qualityman46

This is why you have so many "old timers" electing not to renew their membership. ASQ has become a "marketing organization" bent on making a profit unfortunately they are doing this at the expense of the members.

Well said. When the "strategy" consists of taking membership fees, chewing them up and then spewing the result back in members' faces, it's not surprising that many would choose to just stop feeding the ungrateful monster.