AIR5493, AIR5359, AAQG Training requirements for AS9100 internal auditors

[wes wiszniewski]

During our AS9100 surveillance audit nonconformance was written stating that "internal auditors have not been trained by aerospace certified auditor" as supposedly is required by AIR5493, AIR5359 and AAQG body. What these last specs have to do with AS9100?

[CarolX]

Originally Posted by wes wiszniewski

During our AS9100 surveillance audit nonconformance was written stating that "internal auditors have not been trained by aerospace certified auditor" as supposedly is required by AIR5493, AIR5359 and AAQG body. What these last specs have to do with AS9100?

Hi wes and welcome to the Cove!

I moved your thread to the AS9100 to see if you get any response here.

[Sidney Vianna]

Originally Posted by wes wiszniewski

During our AS9100 surveillance audit nonconformance was written stating that "internal auditors have not been trained by aerospace certified auditor" as supposedly is required by AIR5493, AIR5359 and AAQG body. What these last specs have to do with AS9100?

There are several Standards supporting the ICOP process, such as AS9104, SAE AIR 5359 (to be replaced by AS9014), SAE AIR 5493 etc....Some of the requirements contained therein might affect you as a supplier seeking ICOP certification to AS9100. However, in answer to your specific question, I think this is just another case of a 3rd party auditor being misguided. There is no requirement in AS9100, nor in any of the above mentioned documents that require YOUR INTERNAL AUDITORS to be trained by an Aerospace Experienced Auditor (AEA). This requirement applies to EXTERNAL, 2nd and 3rd party auditors. Your internal auditors must be COMPETENT to perform as internal auditors, but again, there is NO REQUIREMENT that they need to be trained by an AEA. So, if I were you, I would appeal this finding.
And, just to throw more fuel on the fire, if, after you were written up for this, you started receiving "offerings" for internal auditor training by AEAs, you should start wondering if your external audit results are as confidential as they should be.

[Jeff Frost]

Sidney is correct relating to the requirements of the standard. It could very well be that this auditor was applying a requirement from his last employer or from the previous revision of AS9100 by mistake. AIR5359 Clause 7.2 requires that “Aerospace Experienced Auditors” must have a minimum of 4 year aerospace industry experience in the last 10 years and this particular registrar may have recruited this auditor from one of the big aerospace companies.

Two actions I would recommend would be to investigate the finding in the following areas:

1. Is there sufficient evidence that the auditors or the auditor trainer was competent in the AS9100 standard and can it be objectively proven to the registrar or the customer?

2. Does one or more of your customers require that internal auditors to have training at this level?

Once you have completed the investigtion and have objective evidence that there is no requirement for AEA's to perform your internal audits and you do meet requirements of Clause 6.2.2 and 8.2.2 of AS9100B then appeal this finding.