The Elsmar Cove Forums and Lean Manufacturing - Is all this too complex?

[Marc]

I received an e-mail with a question. I replied with a short answer and suggested that the person ask in the forums rather than trust my 'opinion' on the question.

I received this in a response e-mail:

> You know I went to the forums and this area is very time consuming. It seems
> as if you do not utilitize lean manufacturing (which is what we use for
> assembly lines to keep them running at a easy operation and flow.) Also by the
> time you read the information to get in to the forums you are ready to call
> it quits! This is not a continuous flow exercise.
> Well just wanted to give my opinion on the matter because this
> issue has been bothering me and I had to get up the courage to right.

Is there something I can do to address this? What are your thoughts?

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Originally Posted by Marc

Is there something I can do to address this? What are your thoughts?

I'm glad that the sender took the time to tell us about this. Is the Cove complex? I think it must be, when you consider the amount of information here. Can it be made less confusing? Probably... We all know that nothing is perfect and anything can be improved.

I wonder if the sender has posted specific questions or just searched the forums in vain?

My problem is that I've been around this place for so long that I have a very hard time putting myself in a newbies shoes, no matter how hard I try... Perhaps it's time for a digital brainstorm: How can the Cove be improved?

/Claes

[JRKH]

It seems that part of the issue is whether you visit the cove often or occasionaly. When I drop in I usually look at what is being discussed most recently. I think most of the regulars are doing the same.

Unfortunately we have a tendency sometimes to get off subject or threads take humourous turns etc and can get clogged up. This can be a problem when someone is doing a search. Particularly if that person is not a regular, or is fairly new to the cove, or is new to quality.

Searches will pull up a lot of data and it can be tough and time consuming to sort thru it all. I don't know if this is an area that can be improved or not. Just thought I'd throw it out there. I'm sure we can all help by trying to stay on topic in a thread.

Anyway, Thanks for the forum Mark. This is a great topic and, as always, you are looking for ways to improve. Did your "lean mfg" responder have any suggestions?

James

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Claes Gefvenberg

I'm glad that the sender took the time to tell us about this.

I agree - Yet -- This a very rare complaint...

I see 3 essential issues:
1. Familiarity with the internet and software such as 'forum' software;
2. Failure to use the Search feature / function.
3. "I want you to do all the reading / research for me."
(aka "Cliff's Notes" / "A Dummies Guide to ...")

I note #3 mainly from:

> assembly lines to keep them running at a easy operation and flow.) Also by the
> time you read the information to get in to the forums you are ready to call
> it quits! This is not a continuous flow exercise.

In the early years I tried to keep the number of forums low to keep confusion at a minimum. But... Not so long ago I went through the 'We need a forum for this..." exercise which many of you probably remember.

And - I get a LOT of personal e-mails - At least several a day - And obviously I do not have the time to answer every question personally, which I try to explain briefly, and I refer them to the forum.

Comments??

[Howard Atkins]

Originally Posted by Claes Gefvenberg

I'm glad that the sender took the time to tell us about this. Is the Cove complex? I think it must be, when you consider the amount of information here. Can it be made less confusing? Probably... We all know that nothing is perfect and anything can be improved.

I wonder if the sender has posted specific questions or just searched the forums in vain?

My problem is that I've been around this place for so long that I have a very hard time putting myself in a newbies shoes, no matter how hard I try... Perhaps it's time for a digital brainstorm: How can the Cove be improved?

/Claes

Obviously I am in the same position as Claes.
Did the poster want info on "lean", then there is a forum and he could focus there.
The fact that there are so many forums should enable the newbie to focus on his specific interest and find that in a more formatted manner.

I have also noticed that I get questions by E-mail and usually suggest that they post them, I am not sure if this is not an easy way out for people to get an answer to a specific problem without trying to work for it.

I still maintain that self learning is the most effective and thus the initial searching is as valuable, if not more so, as the specific answer.

I think that despite the initial problems to acclimatize the benefits of being in the community are well worth it.

[D.Scott]

Some people may think it's too much effort to read the forums for the information they need, but the majority know it is worth the effort. This is probably the best source for exchange of quality information and ideas and the people who want "instant answers" will spend even more time finding a forum with half the resources. It would be wonderful if you could type in an "Ask Jeeves" question and get an instant answer but that isn't what is offered here. Personally, I don't like the idea of the Cove being "Lean". I like the discussion, the different ideas and the interaction experienced while browsing the different forums. For those who want instant answers, let them pay thousands and buy an interactive program that better suits their resource needs.

Lean manufacturing is a nice concept but like any good thing, it won't work until you prepare it, develop it and put it in motion. If you stand with your arms flung wide and shout "Come and get me Lean", you will be standing and shouting for a long time. The same applies to the resources at the Cove. Once you are used to the Cove, it isn't hard to search for and find answers to practically any question you have. Like anything worth having, you have to be willing to invest some time to become familiar with how to find your way around. The Cove, as it is, will give you tremendous value for the time invested.

Just my opinion.

Dave

[Jim Wynne]

Originally Posted by Marc

Is there something I can do to address this? What are your thoughts?

If the person were complaining about it being difficult to search for information I might be able to see the point. But he asked a question and was advised to post it in the forums and complained that that was too difficult, and not "lean" enough. I think it's pretty amazing how quickly questions get answered here, and when a query goes unanswered for any amount of time it's almost always because the question is about some issue that's very technical and only peripherally related to quality, or the question is unintelligible.

[Icy Mountain]

Wow. At the risk of offending the original poster, not every tool can be applied to every problem. I don't believe that Marc ever intended Elsmar.com BE a continuous flow exercise (correct me if I'm wrong). If you have read "The Goal" by Eli Goldratt, you will recognize that there are a lot of "Herbies" here. No offense, but we were all newbies once and it seems that eliminating the bottlenecks here at the Cove would defeat the purpose.