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PJR (Perry Johnson) Reputation - What is it? Is it deserved?

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View Poll Results: PJR reputation as a registrar
I trust a PJR registration to reflect a good company. 3 7.69%
I do NOT trust a PJR registration to reflect a good company. 16 41.03%
The PJR reputation is fair. 11 28.21%
The PJR reputation is NOT fair. 4 10.26%
PJR needs to work on clearing the air. 20 51.28%
PJR does NOT need to work on clearing the air. 2 5.13%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 39. You may not vote on this Poll because you are not Logged In.

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Old 3rd January 2006, 05:24 PM
Randy's Avatar

Posts: 8,245
PJR Reputation - What is it? Is it deserved?

In Reply to Parent Post by QualityPhD

Second, what is the BIG deal about PJR becoming accredited for TS 16949? Could it be the lingering rumors about the "conflict of interest" that NO OTHER registrar has ever had to squash -- even though most perform dual consulting and auditing services?
Quality PhD

Who are these Registrars pray-tell? I know that others may be as curious as I am.

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Old 3rd January 2006, 05:51 PM
Wes Bucey's Avatar
Wes Bucey

Posts: 10,959
In Reply to Parent Post by Randy

Who are these Registrars pray-tell? I know that others may be as curious as I am.
I'm pretty sure the root of the poor perception of PJR had absolutely nothing to do with the fact they have both registrar and consultant "branches." Ergo, the discussion of other registrars having consulting arms is not germane to the thread. Thanks for the question, though, Randy.

As old and experienced as I am, even I do not know of a complete, point-by-point dissection of the source of the aroma, regardless of the fact I have personally scented it at several suppliers.

Folks of my acquaintance who have the power to hire a registrar or approve a supplier based on its registration hesitate to bother with a full investigation. The common refrain is "better safe than sorry - we'll just pass."

As I wrote earlier, it may be time to clear the air, but it would entail a meaningful input by an authentic PJR voice to have validity in my mind.
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Old 3rd January 2006, 07:19 PM
QualityPhD's Avatar

Posts: 132
Having been an former member of management at Perry Johnson, author of an accredited AS 9100 Lead Auditor training program in use by Perry Johnson, and now as an independent provider to Perry Johnson Registrar, I feel somewhat able to provide a voice of the employee of PJR. The point of view of the registrar can only be stated by the Executive Management -- however, the voice of the customer is best expressed by the customer him/herself.

There have been several "topics of discussion" germaine to the PJR reputation perception. Consulting as a conflict of interest and previous marketing activities are two that come to mind immediately -- both have been resolved. What is more relevant to achieving consistency within the organization is the consistency of findings between auditors serving the customers of PJR. This has been difficult for most registrars and will continue to plague each and every audit performed; first, second and third party, until ISO, QS and TS training adopts the philosophy of demanding COMPETENCY and CONSISTENCY for certificated auditors.

Merely passing a Lead Auditor course illustrates qualification, not competence. Just as in the age old question...."What to you call the guy who graduates last in his class at medical school?"..... Answer: Doctor. Do you want him operating on your brain?

Shouldn't we demand more from our auditors in determining/monitoring/measuring the conformance of our quality management systems?

Please feel free to discuss.
Old 3rd January 2006, 07:41 PM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne

Posts: 14,077
I'm going to put on my moderator-cum-devil's-advocate hat here for a minute, but first a word about that medical school analogy. What if only a fraction of a point separates the whole graduating class?

Now back to our regularly-scheduled discussion. Are you saying that things got out of hand at PJR, and that it was because of lousy auditors?
Old 3rd January 2006, 07:49 PM
Wes Bucey's Avatar
Wes Bucey

Posts: 10,959
Question PJR (Perry Johnson) Reputation - What is it? Is it deserved?

Many have cast aspersions on the reputation of Perry Johnson Registrars. What is their reputation, exactly? How did they get it? Was it fair then? Is it fair now? At least one former employee would like to weigh in on the matter. I have transferred a couple of pertinent posts from another thread to start the ball rolling. What is your opinion? Why? Some have argued that "perception is the same as reality" - What do YOU think?
Old 3rd January 2006, 07:51 PM
QualityPhD's Avatar

Posts: 132
If a fraction of a point separates the entire graduating class.... we then have qualified physicians... still have not attained compentency!

No, on the PJR point, I am not saying that the issue is lousy auditors... I am saying that many registrars have the same type of issues between auditors, lack of consistency in findings.
Old 3rd January 2006, 07:59 PM
QualityPhD's Avatar

Posts: 132
Clarification required


Not to burst the bubble here, but I am eagerly awaiting these non-scientific results. Several questions do not "fit" in the category of PJR reputation perception.

When designing a survey, one needs to include only the questions that will effective gauge to recipients response to a targeted query. It appears there are two issues here:
1. PJR's reputation, and;
2. Trust in the effectiveness of the quality management system of an organization audited by PJR.

These are divergent topics - IMHO
Old 3rd January 2006, 08:12 PM
Wes Bucey's Avatar
Wes Bucey

Posts: 10,959
I should have waited until late tonight when no one was online to do this moving. I seem to have inadvertently misplaced a couple of posts. I need to find and reinsert them.

As to the poll. The issue as I know it IS that many quality professionals, especially those choosing to approve or deny supplier status to companies hoping to be in their supply chain, have a poor impression of suppliers with a PJR registration certificate. That may or may not be fair to the supplier, but the issue is all about the perceived reputation of PJR to award a fairly deserved certificate of registration.

My own perception of PJR is a combination of my own anecdotal experience with suppliers holding PJR registrations and the gossip of colleagues around the world over the last 6 or 7 years. Frankly, the reputation is not good and my colleagues do look askance at suppliers with PJR registrations.

I am willing to open my mind to new information. So let's see what others have to say.
Thanks to Wes Bucey for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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