Should the billing process be part of ISO 9001:2008?

[RCBeyette]

In Reply to Parent Post by ralphsulser

Exactly, so why does it need to be part of a QMS since SOX rules (at least in the US) I can't see why additions have to be incorporated just because it is time to re-issue, maybe simplifying would be more beneficial.

Well, not everyone needs to comply to Sarbanes-Oxley. And I did suggest putting something akin to what exists in ISO 14001 regarding evaluation to compliance.

[Craig H.]

Some of you may remember Sidney and I having a similar discussion some time ago, and I stated then that we should be auditing accounting, but Sidney, and some other smart people I talked to one-on-one, changed my mind.

Now, I do think that GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principals) does cover accounting, and if the same principals are applied to billing then there is no reason for a QMS audit. HOWEVER, if there are repeated problems/complaints, then a look at the process (by someone) is in order, and that is something we should be pushing for as Q-pros (Pareto of customer complaints, anyone?). We can even offer to help.

It is, after all, just another process.

[ralphsulser]

Craig, I can agree with you if it a process causing customer complaints, then it must be addressed and corrected. I just have never experienced this type complaint.

[tarheels4 - 2007]

In Reply to Parent Post by ralphsulser

Craig, I can agree with you if it a process causing customer complaints, then it must be addressed and corrected. I just have never experienced this type complaint.

I was in a (1-day) TS training class that focused on financial stuff and how to evaluate whether the auditee (supplier) is a threat to the TS subscriber due to a shaky finances. According to the instructor a supplier's finances, recievables for example, could be a potential threat to TS subscriber(s) it supplys, so if the TS auditor sees that accounts receivables of a certain customer are say, 120 days, then it could be rasied as an issue in a TS audit.

So the message was that if the financial situation of the supplier was such that it could threaten it's own viability as an organization and consequently the ability to supply parts to the customer (GM? or Ford?), it is something that should be focused on by the TS auditor.

I am not a TS or ISO 9000 auditor just communicating a training experience. I wonder if TS auditors really look at these things? I imagine it could cause some friction with the auditee.

[Joe Cruse]

We don't have much on the finance side in our qms, but we do note billing and especially customer payment in our qms. It's noted in our customer feedback and customer service procedures, and deals a lot with credit watch. This is very important to the business and may not be brought to the table in a helpful way by relying on financial auditors.

[samer]

I beleive that that the financial issues should always be treated as an optional matter, that means to kep the situation as it is now in the 2000 standard , including financial issues can be conidered as decision taken by the top mangement according to the nature of the activities of the organization

[Martijn]

In Reply to Parent Post by Howard Atkins

In my opinion it is not auditing twice, rather different aspects.
I believe that the financial audits are involved with the accuracy of the calculations and the method of calculating various aspects of the actual allowed exceptions.

I'm going with Howard as well, the financial audits have a different setting.

IMHO the billing process should not be seperately mentioned in the new standard (I'd prefer they'd take out some more of the "specifics" like non conforming products, etc.). The standard should guide us in managing quality/customer satisfaction risks, and should not pin us down on specifics and tell us that billing shall be managed. Billing in new ISO 9001 is a step backwards.

If billing is critical (and quite often it is, be it from SarbOx point of view or customer PoV) it should definetely be part of your management system. We have our SarbOx system in place, but it's mostly managed trough our ERP system and some obligatory company training on business responsibilities etc.

[Joe Cruse]

To follow up on this, we just had a 2 day Renewal audit (passed w/ flying colors!!!), and this was brought up. The auditors told us that the new standard coming out is going to require the use of some metrics that would be generated in finance and accounting, at least more so than before. This is in an effort to get companies to document things like CI with some actual $ benefit shown. The trend would be to have finance and accounting come into the qms. They also said that under 6-Resource Management, there will be more to do with safety and environmental in the qms.

Interesting.