The Elsmar Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to ProblemsElsmar Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 17025 - General Metrology, Measurement Device, Calibration and Test Laboratories > ISO 17025 and related Metrology Topics - Measurement Devices, Calibration and Test Laboratories
Forum Username

Wooden Line

Controlled Environment - Environmental Requirements for calibrations


Search the Elsmar Cove
Search Elsmar
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Follow Marc & Elsmar
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed  Marc Smith's Google+ Page  Marc Smith's Linked In Page   Marc Smith's Elsmar Cove YouTube Page  Marc Smith's Facebook Page  Elsmar Cove Twitter Feed
Elsmar Cove Groups
Elsmar Cove Google+ Group  Elsmar Cove LinkedIn Group  Elsmar Cove Facebook Group
Sponsor Links



Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:

Howard's
International Quality Services
Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting
Bob Doering's
Correct SPC - Precision Machining

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook
IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Quality Digest Portal
IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology
ASQ - American Society for Quality
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  Post Number #1  
Old 4th May 2006, 04:48 PM
AlanJ_QA

 
 
Total Posts: 1
Question Controlled Environment - Environmental Requirements for calibrations

I have proposed performing internal calibrations of caliers and micrometers. My supervisor has said that we can not do this because ISO 17025, section 5.3 requires a controlled environement. I need some references to published calibration standards to convince him that the ambient temperature, if within say 70 +/- 5 degrees F. and if that temperature is recorded at the time of the calibration, that we will meet all requirements of ISO, Dod, Etc.

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #2  
Old 4th May 2006, 05:46 PM
Grizz1345's Avatar
Grizz1345

 
 
Total Posts: 85
Temperature Standard

In ANSI/ASME B1.2-1983 Gages and Gaging for Unified Inch Screw Threads it states in paragraph 2.4.1 A temperature of 68 degrees F (20 C) is the standard temperature used internationally for linear measurements. --- For screw thread gaging, the acceptable tolerance on the standard temperature is 2 degrees F.

This is the generally accepted standard for calibration labs worldwide. Hope this helps.
Sponsored Links

  Post Number #3  
Old 4th May 2006, 08:08 PM
Hershal's Avatar
Hershal

 
 
Total Posts: 2,430
The typical accepted environmental parameters for dimensional calibration are:

20 C +/-1 C
30-50% RH

For more information, see NCSLI' RP-7 (Recommended Practice).

If you do internal cal, make sure your gauge blocks are sent to a laboratory accredited to ISO/IEC 17025 by an internationally recognized accrediting body to assure traceability, and that your procedures are documented and validated and personnel trainined, and that you have completed your measurement uncertainty calculations.

Traceability involves an unbroken chain of comparisons to SI through National or international standards, such as the standards maintained by NIST, and stated uncertainties at each step. This is according to the internationally accepted definitions in the VIM (Vocabulary of General and Specific Terms in Metrology).

Hope this helps.

Hershal
  Post Number #4  
Old 4th May 2006, 08:30 PM
Jennifer Kirley's Avatar
Jennifer Kirley

 
 
Total Posts: 5,716
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by AlanJ_QA

I have proposed performing internal calibrations of caliers and micrometers. My supervisor has said that we can not do this because ISO 17025, section 5.3 requires a controlled environement. I need some references to published calibration standards to convince him that the ambient temperature, if within say 70 +/- 5 degrees F. and if that temperature is recorded at the time of the calibration, that we will meet all requirements of ISO, Dod, Etc.
Welcome to The Cove! These tools have a resolution of thousandths? Ten-thousandths? Tight calibration lab environmental controls are usually called out for tight tolerances or to control conditions subject to regulations. Being ISO registered in itsself doesn't require such tight controls in many cases.

Are your working conditions far outside the 65-75 degree range you specify? (Don't forget humidity!) I used to work in a machine shop that reached 90 degrees and 80 percent humidity. Arguably it would be foolish to calibrate the tools at a strict 68 degrees and 50% humidity because the difference between lab and shop floor would invite error. Do you see what I mean? But we measured in thousandths as a rule.

Your need for ISO 17025 controls is based on what? Customer requirements, contracts and regulations might call out a need for strict calibration control, but as I understand the standards they don't get that prescriptive.

Here's an article on calibration that I hope will help. http://www.qualitydigest.com/feb97/gagecal.html

Last edited by Jennifer Kirley; 4th May 2006 at 08:35 PM.
  Post Number #5  
Old 4th May 2006, 09:28 PM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,329
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by AlanJ_QA

I have proposed performing internal calibrations of caliers and micrometers. My supervisor has said that we can not do this because ISO 17025, section 5.3 requires a controlled environement. I need some references to published calibration standards to convince him that the ambient temperature, if within say 70 +/- 5 degrees F. and if that temperature is recorded at the time of the calibration, that we will meet all requirements of ISO, Dod, Etc.

Many, if not most, companies I see calibrate (or verify) their basic hand gages like calipers and mics. If your tolerances are not especially narrow, the advice given above by Hershal and Jennifer should be adequate to meet your needs. If you work to very tight tolerances, you probably would not be using calipers in the first place.
  Post Number #6  
Old 5th May 2006, 07:23 AM
apestate's Avatar
apestate

 
 
Total Posts: 518
I also wonder why ISO/IEC 17025:2005 is being quoted by your manager. ISO 17025 does not apply to your activities unless you're using that standard.

If you are not calibrating calipers/mics in house, you're certainly not using 17025.

Quote:
The typical accepted environmental parameters for dimensional calibration are:

20 C +/-1 C
30-50% RH
Hershal, where is this standardized? I see "generally accepted" and wonder on what that is based.
  Post Number #7  
Old 5th May 2006, 07:39 AM
harry

 
 
Total Posts: 6,277
Daytime temperatures over here are about 27-30 degrees C and 32-36 degrees C outdoors. Calibration is usually done in air conditioned rooms of about 25 degrees C. Correction factors are then applied to cater for the difference between calibration room temperature and ideal temperature. If accuracy is important, the same correction table can be used to take care of the difference in ambient/shop temperature versus the temperature at which the instrument is calibrated.

Such tables are usually supplied with instruments for tropical climate.
  Post Number #8  
Old 5th May 2006, 12:25 PM
Hershal's Avatar
Hershal

 
 
Total Posts: 2,430
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by atetsade

I also wonder why ISO/IEC 17025:2005 is being quoted by your manager. ISO 17025 does not apply to your activities unless you're using that standard.
Hershal, where is this standardized? I see "generally accepted" and wonder on what that is based.
The standardization is documented in such locations as military requirements, NCSLI RP-7, and accepted international norms. It is certainly possible to calibrate outside the norms, but then the uncertainty values increase. Remember the gauge blocks are cal'd at 20 C, so if the calipers are cal'd at 25 C, then the 5 C difference is taken, divided by square root of three because it is a rectangular distribution, and included as one of the Type B contributions.

As for ANS/ISO/IEC 17025, for internal cal, it certainly does apply. ISO 9001 is woefully inadequate in the calibration requirements because that is not the intended purpose, where 17025 and ANSI/NCSL Z540-1-1994 are both intended to cover calibration activities. 17025 also covers testing activities, where Z540 does not.

Hope this helps.

Hershal
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 17025 - General Metrology, Measurement Device, Calibration and Test Laboratories > ISO 17025 and related Metrology Topics - Measurement Devices, Calibration and Test Laboratories

Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?


Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Controlled Environment Procedure: Disaster Recovery Plan TCdavid ISO 13485 and ISO 14969 - Medical Devices - Quality Management Systems 14 10th April 2015 05:43 PM
Clean Room as a Controlled Environment - Requirements Aphel ISO 13485 and ISO 14969 - Medical Devices - Quality Management Systems 12 25th April 2014 03:03 AM
Cleanliness Requirements for Raw Materials Used in a Controlled Environment srrbell Quality Management Related Issues 4 19th March 2014 01:46 PM
Controlled Environment Classification ifserav Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 1 3rd October 2013 07:35 PM
Medical Device Manufacturing in Controlled Environment? How to decide? Cardinal Fan Other Medical Device Regulations World-Wide 1 13th January 2012 12:17 PM



The time now is 10:45 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


 


Marc Timothy Smith - Elsmar.com
8466 LeSourdsville-West Chester Road, Olde West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929
513 341-6272
NOTE: This forum uses "cookies".