The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Information Resources - Papers - Articles - Etc. > The Reading Room


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10th June 2006, 01:21 PM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne Jim Wynne is offline
Courtesy Access

Registration Date: Jan 2005
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Age: 57
 
Posts: 9,216
Thanks Given to Others: 755
Thanked 2,298 Times in 1,550 Posts
Karma Power: 612
Karma: 20405
Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
I Say... A tale of two (bad) managers

This is from my Common Sense Quality blog, and I thought it was worth sharing here:

I was recently browsing through a fascinating book called Found, which is a compilation of odds and ends--mostly written notes, letters and lists--that people have happened upon in their daily travels. Highly recommended.

One thing I saw in the book piqued my interest, because it reminded me of the worst manager I ever worked for, and the ridiculous stir he caused when he allowed his own bias and paranoia to inform his approach to problem solving. Both are good examples of how not to manage people.

First the Found find: it is a printed note, probably posted on a company bulletin board and/or distributed to coworkers, about what one manager found on her way in the door one morning:
This morning I found a banana skin in the middle of the front doorway, which appears to have been purposely placed there. This could have been a hazard for anyone walking through the doorway and could have caused someone to fall and hurt him- or herself.

If it is found out who did this, we will take action against the person responsible for endangering the lives of others (whether intentional or not). Be considerate of your neighbors and clean up after yourself. Don't leave your trash in areas where it can pose a hazard to other people.

Please contact me if you have any information regarding who might have done this.

Lilllian 5/5/03

The first thing I thought after reading the notice was that if Lillian worked for me, this posting would constitute all of the evidence I'd need to determine that she should not be in a position of responsibility. More about that after I tell the story about my favorite bad manager.

Oddly enough, the bad manager was hired by one of my favorite managers.


Jack was a VP of operations in a medium-sized job shop dealing with a highly specialized and technical commodity for a company that was recognized as the best at what it did. He had worked himself up from being an hourly production worker, and he was intimately familiar with the machines, the customers, and all of the potential problems that might arise. He was highly regarded by all who worked for him, and was never too big to pitch in and help when things got busy, or when there was a perplexing problem out on the production floor.

My first encounter with him came when I had been with the company only a week or so, and there was a big order for an important customer that need to get out the door ASAP. While the primary work had been done, there was still testing to do, and I found myself with a pile of samples, very little time, and and very little experience in the job at hand. Jack came into the lab and saw me running around like the proverbial headless chicken and said, "You look like you could use another set of hands. Tell me what you need for me to do and I'll help you get this done."

It was remarkable for a couple of different reasons. First, the obvious--that the VP was willing to do more than sit in his office and tell everyone else to hurry up. But he also realized that I was inexperienced, and knew that the best learning happens under the gun, so rather than just pushing me to the side and doing the work with me assisting, he actually helped, and offered good advice as we went along. In the end, the job was done on time, I learned something, and Jack had one more person he could count on when things got crazy.

After I had been with the company for a year or so, it was decided that Jack himself need help, and he hired a plant manager, who became my boss. George was an officious little snot who had significant industry experience but was completely clueless when it came to dealing with people. He was the ultimate micromanager, and wasn't happy unless he was interfering with something that didn't require his involvement. Everyone did everything the wrong way, according to George, and it wasn't long before the walls and bulletin boards were festooned with his little threatening do-this-don't-do-that notices.



Jack had been made aware by more than one person that George was causing more problems than he was solving, and reportedly told one manager that he was aware that a mistake had been made, and it would be resolved one way or another in the near future. In the meantime, George was good enough to make a blunder so egregious that Jack had the opportunity he was waiting for.


In the quality department we would have morning meetings of 15 minutes or so every day. The idea was to communicate changing priorities--it was a job shop, after all--and bits of company news. One morning George himself made an appearance with some unsettling news. It seemed that someone had found some footprints on a toilet seat in the production area washroom, and it seemed clear (at least to George) that someone--a filthy pervert--had been standing on the toilet seat and peering over the top of the divider at his neighbor in the next stall. George let us know, in no uncertain terms, that if the offender was identified he would be dealt with severely, as would anyone who had knowledge of the pervert's identity and didn't come forward with it.


A similar message had been delivered to all of the other departments, from IT to Accounts Receivable to Sales and Marketing--there was a pervert in the building--be on the lookout!
The "incident" had all the trappings of an urban legend--there was something that just didn't smell right about it. Of course, it was the subject of water-cooler discussions all day, with people offering hushed speculations about who the pervert might be, to others wondering if George had lost his mind.


I decided to do a little detective work.


First, I was able to ascertain that the central feature of the story was true. Someone had indeed found footprints on the toilet seat, and reported his finding to the production manager, whom I spoke with. He said (proudly) that it was he who had first developed the pervert theory, as there seemed to be no other reason for anyone to stand on the toilet seat. I asked him if he could show me the stall where the footprints were found. We went into the washroom, which also served as a locker room for the production workers, and he showed me the stall.


There was nothing on the walls above the toilet that someone might have been reaching for, and no sign of any graffiti which the offender might have been scrawling (as a reason for standing on the toilet). I asked which direction the footprints were facing, and was told that they were facing the wall behind the toilet, and that there were two distinct impressions, left and right. I had all the information I needed--there was an obvious answer, and it was about to be serendipitously demonstrated.


As we left the area where the stalls were and entered the locker room, there was a production worker who had arrived late and was donning his work clothes. The nature of the job was that there were acids and chemicals and other noxious materials being sloshed about, so the production workers all wore rubber boots. As the production manager and I paused in the locker room to discuss what we had just seen in the stall, the worker was pulling on his boots. There was a long, flat bench in front of the lockers, and after the boots were on, he put his left foot up on the bench and tucked the cuff of his pants leg into his boot, then did the same thing with the right. He left two distinct footprints on the bench.


I showed the footprints to the production manager, who had had his back to the worker getting dressed. "I guess there must have been a pervert in here, too," I said. Of course, I might have been wrong--it could have been someone tying his shoes--but it was clear that there was a simple and far less sinister explanation for the footprints on the toilet seat. The production manager looked at the footprints, quickly realized what had probably happened, and said, "Oh f***."


The production manager immediately let George know what we had found, and suggested that he let everyone know that a mistake had been made. True to good micromanager form, though, George was having none of it. Instead of apologizing and letting everyone know that a false alarm had been raised, George issued a memo saying that in addition to terminating any perverts who might be identified, people who failed to clean up after themselves in the washrooms would be disciplined.


George was gone within the month.


Lillian, the micromanager who got all in a froth about the banana peel, made a couple of unnecessary assumptions. Without any apparent evidence, she surmised that the skin "...appears to have been purposely placed there." This from the fact, one assumes, that the banana peel was in the middle of the doorway. Of course the fact that it might have been innocently dropped there by someone who had eaten the banana in his car on the way to work, and then was fumbling stuff he was carrying as he tried to open the door, never occurred to her, or the idea that a raccoon might have left it there, or perhaps someone carrying something out of the building. No, someone was trying to hurt somebody! We won't tolerate it!


Also notice that Lillian says "...we will take action...whether [the banana peel's presence] was intentional or not." If you accidentally dropped something, and were completely unaware that you had done so, you will be punished!


Lillian and George both broke a couple of the cardinal rules of management:
  • In solving a problem, make sure before invoking the fix that your solution doesn't create an equal or worse problem than the original.
  • The simplest answer that works is probably the best answer.
The second is known as "Occam's Razor"--do not multiply entities unnecessarily. There were simple and easily-divined answers to why there were footprints on the toilet and a banana peel in the doorway. Instead, the two managers concocted wild fantasies about perverts and reckless practical jokers, apparently as a way to flex their managerial muscles and let everyone know who was in charge.


I contend that both incidents were prima facie evidence of gross incompetence, and all the evidence needed to send both managers packing. There is simply no known cure for the types of personality defects that result in such egregious decision making. In George's case, Jack was perceptive enough to realize that, and George was allowed the opportunity to hoist himself on his own petard. My guess is that the people who work for Lillian probably weren't as lucky, but we can hope, I guess. Allowing bad managers to go on managing badly indefinitely sends a sure sign to employees that upper management isn't interested in making things better, and nothing will ever work as well as it might so long as people like George and Lillian are in charge of anything more important than taking out the trash.
__________________
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.-- Joseph Heller
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10th June 2006, 04:15 PM
mikoyan mikoyan is offline
Involved - Posts

Registration Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Age: 40
 
Posts: 43
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 15
Karma: 30
mikoyan has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default Re: A take of two (bad) managers

That's a very good story. Reminds about a story of a bird and a handle...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 11th June 2006, 06:11 PM
Claes Gefvenberg's Avatar
Claes Gefvenberg Claes Gefvenberg is offline
Forum Administrator

Registration Date: May 2000
Location: Eskilstuna, Sweden
Age: 49
 
Posts: 3,771
Thanks Given to Others: 246
Thanked 244 Times in 172 Posts
Blog Entries: 13
Karma Power: 213
Karma: 4951
Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Thumbs up Re: A tale of two (bad) managers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wynne

The second is known as "Occam's Razor"--do not multiply entities unnecessarily.
Yes... Not to mention Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity".

/Claes
__________________
Hanlon's Razor.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
User Groups: Elsmar Cove Cycling Enthusiasts Formula 1 fanatics Photo freaks Readers Corner
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11th June 2006, 07:16 PM
Wes Bucey's Avatar
Wes Bucey Wes Bucey is offline
Quality Manager

Registration Date: Sep 2003
Location: Illinois
 
Posts: 7,537
Thanks Given to Others: 182
Thanked 1,127 Times in 762 Posts
Karma Power: 397
Karma: 11090
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Wes Bucey is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default Re: A tale of two (bad) managers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claes Gefvenberg

Yes... Not to mention Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity".

/Claes
I LOVE this!
__________________
"Few minds wear out; more rust out"
Inscribed over the entrance of Louis Pasteur School, Chicago
Christian Nestell Bovee (1820-1904) in Thoughts, Feelings and Fancies, 1857
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12th June 2006, 04:03 AM
Gert Sorensen's Avatar
Gert Sorensen Gert Sorensen is offline
QA Systems Coordinator

Registration Date: Apr 2006
Location: Denmark
Age: 42
 
Posts: 720
Thanks Given to Others: 327
Thanked 224 Times in 134 Posts
Karma Power: 73
Karma: 2221
Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Gert Sorensen is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default Re: A tale of two (bad) managers

Funny thing this stuff about managers. It is a universal demand that they have taken their masters degree and so on, but it is an equally universal fact that people skills and fairness do not play a big part when hiring them...... Very odd.

It is a very good history, and there is potential for learning
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12th June 2006, 08:09 AM
sameoldflame's Avatar
sameoldflame sameoldflame is offline
Registered Visitor

Registration Date: Mar 2006
Location: Austria
Age: 27
 
Posts: 6
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Karma Power: 15
Karma: 10
sameoldflame has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Default Re: A tale of two (bad) managers

great story
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12th June 2006, 09:44 AM
ScottK's Avatar
ScottK ScottK is offline
Not out of the crisis

Registration Date: Apr 2006
Location: Butler, NJ
 
Posts: 1,786
Thanks Given to Others: 122
Thanked 281 Times in 223 Posts
Karma Power: 109
Karma: 2998
ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.ScottK is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Default Re: A tale of two (bad) managers

This occurred to me on Friday...

The "Facilities Manager" came into my office, which is shared, and announced to two of us that were there that if we don't close the windows when the last peson leaves he "will be authorized to screw them shut".

Being relatively new, I didn't laugh right in the guy's face.
But I did just stare at him in wonder until he left.
__________________
Time for a new sig line.
My LinkedIn Profile
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12th June 2006, 10:24 AM
Claes Gefvenberg's Avatar
Claes Gefvenberg Claes Gefvenberg is offline
Forum Administrator

Registration Date: May 2000
Location: Eskilstuna, Sweden
Age: 49
 
Posts: 3,771
Thanks Given to Others: 246
Thanked 244 Times in 172 Posts
Blog Entries: 13
Karma Power: 213
Karma: 4951
Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Claes Gefvenberg is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Screw Re: A tale of two (bad) managers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discordian

"will be authorized to screw them shut".
Will be authorized??? So he is not authorized to do that yet? Makes me wonder whether something else needs to be screwed shut...

/Claes
__________________
Hanlon's Razor.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
User Groups: Elsmar Cove Cycling Enthusiasts Formula 1 fanatics Photo freaks Readers Corner
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Information Resources - Papers - Articles - Etc. > The Reading Room

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Using Famous Quotations to Describe Bad Managers Jim Wynne Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 10 7th July 2008 12:01 PM
A tale of innocence tyker Funny Stuff - Jokes and Humour 15 7th April 2007 02:40 AM
A Tale of that 'Middle' Finger harry Funny Stuff - Jokes and Humour 19 14th February 2007 04:22 AM
The shortest fairy tale amanbhai Funny Stuff - Jokes and Humour 15 25th August 2005 04:13 PM
A sad tale - Daewoo Wes Bucey Automotive News 5 19th June 2005 08:38 PM



The time now is 05:03 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts