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countersink angle, countersunk hole, sheet metal
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  #17  
Old 17th July 2006, 08:42 AM
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Re: How to measure countersink angles of countersunk holes in sheet metal panels

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by RCW

I acknowledge that countersink punches are not adjustable. However, without trying to open a can of worms, is your 100 degree punch truly 100 + 0.000 degrees? There has to be a small amount of offset from nominal. (Maybe not, I'm not in the business.)
Yes, I am sure there is, but I have never taken this to that level.

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by RCW

Finally, most of the nonconforming countersunk holes I have seen here have been made using a drilling countersink process, as opposed to stamping. The operator pushed the countersink through too far. The angle is correct but the outer diameter of the countersink is too large.
Exactly why we went to puched countersinks years ago.

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Old 29th October 2009, 05:10 PM
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Re: How to measure countersink angles of countersunk holes in sheet metal panels

We have Laser Scanned Sheet Metal triangules with the desired angles.
With the laser scan, we can certify the correct angle is being used.
It will just be inserted on the hole and that is it. It has been good enough for FAR's
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Old 5th August 2010, 06:43 PM
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Re: How to measure countersink angles of countersunk holes in sheet metal panels

RCW:

I'm not sure if you or anyone else has looked at this thread for years, but I may be able to give additional help or advice. I currently work in aerospace, and we do both countersinking (machined) and 'dimpling' (or 'punched' as it has been called here).

Checking either can be straight forward. We often use 100 deg countersink gages to check the outer diameter, but usually our countersinks are 100 deg (although usually the customers may allow +/- .5-1.0 deg tolerance), depending upon the customer drawing and/or fastener callout. Since we typically don't worry about the angle, we don't use tools for checking taper angles that often, but there are gauging tools if you don't want to resort to using ball gages.

If you just want to verify the angle is not another standard angle, there are blade templates/gages for checking them. If you want to know the actual angle, there are some two-plunger gages (similar to single-plunger countersink and chamfer gages) that'll measure the angle, but often you'll need to customer order these. Ball gaging and mold with an optical comparator are often good (we used molds with optical comparators for checking large proprietary buttress threads in the oil & gas industry), but you could also use a plug gage (go-/no-go gage). If you know the fastener to be used, and you're worried about depth, I'd check the fastener to spec and place it in the taper as previously suggested... if concerned about depth precision, there are rivet head/flushness gages (essentially plunger dial indicators mounted on a three-point base) for checking smoothness.

Any of these should work, depending on what you're actual concern is with your supplier and your customer requirements.
Thanks to JonathanG for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #20  
Old 26th January 2012, 09:15 AM
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Re: How to measure countersink angles of countersunk holes in sheet metal panels

RCW Had posted

Originally Posted by RCW


Finally, most of the nonconforming countersunk holes I have seen here have been made using a drilling countersink process, as opposed to stamping. The operator pushed the countersink through too far. The angle is correct but the outer diameter of the countersink is too large.

OUr process is both punch and drill.
This is my curent problem our counter sink and diameter are to print but the thru hole is over. If we control the thru hole our counter sink is under size. Specialy when dealing with thin material.
Is there a standard or a BAC spec that allows this for over size thru hole.

The shops i have worked at for some reason have and under standing that it is allowed because of the material thikness. But i need it documented to justify it.

  #21  
Old 26th January 2012, 09:56 AM
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Re: How to measure countersink angles of countersunk holes in sheet metal panels

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by bronco-vinny View Post

RCW Had posted

Originally Posted by RCW


Finally, most of the nonconforming countersunk holes I have seen here have been made using a drilling countersink process, as opposed to stamping. The operator pushed the countersink through too far. The angle is correct but the outer diameter of the countersink is too large.

OUr process is both punch and drill.
This is my curent problem our counter sink and diameter are to print but the thru hole is over. If we control the thru hole our counter sink is under size. Specialy when dealing with thin material.
Is there a standard or a BAC spec that allows this for over size thru hole.

The shops i have worked at for some reason have and under standing that it is allowed because of the material thikness. But i need it documented to justify it.

There is no standard I know of that allows for design errors, and that's what this condition is. Designers specify a thru-hole size and a countersink depth apparently without understanding that if the c'sink is made to the correct depth, the hole will open up. This needs to be accounted for on the drawing. In most cases it means that the hole diameter size/tolerance needs to be increased.

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Thanks to Jim Wynne for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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