Expected Process Maps - Requirement to somehow document how these processes work?

[rharold]

There is a list of "Expected Process Maps" listed below. Is it a requirement to somehow document how these processes work- be it with a flow chart or describe with words or other? If they aren't required, is it beneficial to make process maps for each of the processes listed below? I think I may kind of be missing the point of the exercise as some of it sort of seems like busy work.

Expected Process Maps

Planning (5.4, 7.1, 8.1, 8.5.1)
Management Review (5.6)
Resource Management (6)
Training (6.2.2)
Customer Processes (7.2)
Customer Communication (7.2.3)
Design and Development (7.3)
Purchasing (7.4)
Operations Control (7.5.1)
Product ID / Traceability ( 7.5.2)
Customer Property (7.5.4)
Preservation of Product (7.5.5)
Validation of Processes (7.5.2)
Process Measurement / Monitoring (8.2.3)
Product Measurement / Monitoring (8.2.4)
Analysis / Improvement (8.4, 8.5)

[Marc]

The key is to look at where 'Documented' procedures are required. There are 6 in ISO 9001.

I have used the description of Expected Process Maps because usually for those beyond the 6 required, in all but the smallest companies a documented procedure will probably be a practical neccessity. I apologise if I have confused anyone using the phrase Expected Process Maps.

NOTE: I say Process Map which I equate with the term Documented Procedure.

[rharold]

I don't at all mean this in the wrong way but, where did you get that list from? Is that something generated over time through experience?

Just curious where that list came from. Thanks.

[rharold]

It may have been a little misleading for me but I do certainly understand and appreciate its intent. The reason I asked if it was a requirement is I fear leaving out a large amount of documentation. However, I do now understand the only real requirements are the Quality Manual, 6 Documented Procedures, and Records.


Ryan

[Marc]

Originally Posted by rharold

I don't at all mean this in the wrong way but, where did you get that list from? Is that something generated over time through experience?

Just curious where that list came from. Thanks.

It's in a lot of threads here from many people who don't search well and can't / don't find one of the threads, and then starting a new thread and asking "What are the required procedures?" It started before ISO 9001:2000 was released as drafts circulated. People read the standard, compared it to the 1994 revision and in summary came up with lists of 'requirements'. The list has also been in many magazine articles, in one form or another, since 2000-2001.

The list is also in Implementing a Quality Management System.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by rharold

It may have been a little misleading for me but I do certainly understand and appreciate its intent.

Well, I wanted to jump in quick so that the 'Expected' verbiage is understood. Only VERY small companies will 'get away with' only 6 documented procedures.

One other thing, the processes listed are ones requiring records, if I remember correctly.

[rharold]

Originally Posted by Marc

Well, I wanted to jump in quick so that the 'Expected' verbiage is understood. Only VERY small companies will 'get away with' only 6 documented procedures.

How small is small? Will about 55 employees fall into that catagory. It almost seems that documenting some of the other processes would just be busy work. I truly am trying to be optimistic but having a hard time seeing the benefit of an indepth procedure. Perhaps a brief description of some of the main processes work could be helpful to me and others? That could be it.

[Caster]

Originally Posted by Marc

The key is to look at where 'Documented' procedures are required. There are 6 in ISO 9001. I have used the description of Expected Process Maps because usually for those beyond the 6 required, in all but the smallest companies a documented procedure will probably be a practical neccessity. I apologise if I have confused anyone using the phrase Expected Process Maps.

Marc

Have we all missed the point?

Aren't we supposed to get a team together and map (aka document) our key business processes? And while we are at it use the opportunity to simplify things?

Then simply do a gap analysis using the ISO requirements.

So who cares if ISO requires 6 documented procedures?

The business may need 5, 10 , 1,000 documented procedures or perhaps even none.

We should avoid the dark side of ISO implementation, with the ISO coordinator in a room, cutting and pasting shall clauses...that way leads to the dreaded plak on the wall and no value obtained from ISO....just added costs....

I did one training session where I asked people to imagine they were starting a company from scratch, what would they need to set up?

I broke them into teams, then collected everything onto flip charts. No one team had a complete business model, but all the charts together came close to being comprehensive.

Then I asked them how much they would pay for a simple guideline to company design that would prevent 99.99% of common business problems.....we concluded that ISO was way under priced.