What is the Value of ISO 9001 Certification? Assessors don't do 'their job'

I previously posted this message, but it has failed to appear so apologies for any duplication.

What is the value of ISO certification, where Assessors fail to implement the standards they are supposed to measure companies against?

How can a company retain registration where;

Of the 4 Management reviews scheduled, only one took place. At that meeting there were 2 attendees (from an organisation of some 2500!)

There is no core purchasing procedure, there is NO supplier assessment carried out (of which there are 6000!!).

There is no core HSPPD procedures.

The internal auditing schedule was not up to date, resources are limited! There is no up to date organisation chart and job descriptions are almost non-existent!

Quality records are not systematically identified and addressed as per the applicable requirements of the standard.

The most outstanding issue however is the fact that at the previous assessment 21 noncompliances were raised. Of these only 9 had been effectively addressed!!

Oh and by the way the assessor raised an "observation" over the fact that there had been insufficient management reviews conducted!!!

The list of non-compliance could go on, however the fact remains that standards are NOT being applied effectively. Cash is King in all businesses and so, it would appear, this is the case in 3rd Party registration companies. The registration firm in this case received some £12,000+ per annum for their services, obviously losing this contract would seriously dent their income.

UKAS are supposed to "Police" the industry (in the UK), but what are they doing? I have heard rumours that they encourage Accredited bodies not to take registrations away, why?

Any comments or concerns?


[This message has been edited by The Assessor (edited 10-04-98).]

[Don Winton]

Assessor,

I will try to address your concerns:

“What is the value of ISO certification, where Assessors fail to implement the standards they are supposed to measure companies against?”
There is no value to ISO certification. It is to certify that a company meets the requirements of the standard. By the way, it is not certification, it is registration (I think?). If your Quality Management System tells you to build cement life jackets, that is what is what you will build (apologies, Marc).

“Of the 4 Management reviews scheduled, only one took place. At that meeting there were 2 attendees (from an organization of some 2500!)”
What did the procedure say!!! Were they in compliance with the procedure, or not?

“There is no core purchasing procedure, there is NO supplier assessment carried out (of which there are 6000!!).”
There is not a requirement that suppliers be assessed, only that they be approved. However, this lack of a procedure is a concern.

“There is no core HSPPD procedures.” Where does it say that these are required!!!

“The internal auditing schedule was not up to date, resources are limited! There is no up to date organization chart and job descriptions are almost non-existent”
Schedules are not required. Only that internal audits be carried out as described in the standard and the associated procedures.

As to the rest, you can see that I am skeptical. If the supplier is, in fact, this sloppy (pardon), I suggest that the complaint be submitted to the registrar. Document and submit the complaint.

Marc,
Did I miss anything. Your input would be helpful here.
Thanks and Best Regards,
Don

[Roger Eastin]

I understand your reply, Don, but I think this gentleman's question is pointed at the registrar. (I think the registrar should be a "notch higher" in compliance than those they register.) If the registrar is this sloppy, then it does make me wonder how they can measure someone else's compliance! I take it that this registrar is in the UK. If the certification body does not police the registrars the way they should, then I am not sure what the next step should be...

[Marc]

I'm nosey - I want to know which registrar...

[barb butrym]

me too, marc.......

Its my understanding that UCAS has been good at cracking the whip...my UCAS registrar keeps a tight ship......and cites the control of UCAS as its driving force on that.

[barb butrym]

now that I know...why am I NOT SURPRISED???????

[Don Winton]

Me too, Marc.