The Value of Professional Certifications - Generic question

[Hershal]

I have a presentation next February to prepare for at the local ASQ chapter and am curious as to the value or otherwise of certifications - not just personal value, but organizational value. They don't have to be ASQ only.

If you have some good things to say or not so good, let's hear them.....

Thanks in advance.

[Wes Bucey]

In Reply to Parent Post by Hershal

I have a presentation next February to prepare for at the local ASQ chapter and am curious as to the value or otherwise of certifications - not just personal value, but organizational value. They don't have to be ASQ only.

If you have some good things to say or not so good, let's hear them.....

Thanks in advance.

One thing I would emphasize is the pure value of the Body of Knowledge for each certification. An organization can use the BOK as a yardstick to measure the competence of certified and non-certified personnel. Explain how the BOK is derived as a consensus opinion of experts in a variety of industries.

[ChuckHughes]

A "ageless" question... I remember this same discussion in 1987 with the first ISO wave.

Since then, my experience with ISO indicates the organizational values are measured in "business successes", such as profit, market share, cost control, product (not business) reputation for high quality, etc.

Organizations have a variety of leadership talent that lead and motivate in ways that may inhance the structure ISO brings to the organization. Some leaders use ISO as a flag for customers without supporting its structure internally. We see all kinds of leaders.

Sometimes businesses are successful despite themselves.

I find organizations that utilize all the tools successfully are more profitable, agile and outlast other competitors. It is a skills game for those companies who manage ISO complaint systems.

You use the word "certification" or recognition by a registrar that the organization is compliant with requirements. I find no value in certification efforts. Registrars (and I have worked for more than a dozen since 1990) are there to see if the organization is meeting the structural requirements. Unless the auditor has significant experience in business controls, financial management, process controls, etc, it is difficult for most auditors to investigate the essence of the business and provide the link between poor performance and compliance issues. Sure an auditor can find the late delivery event or the incomplete Management Review minutes, but what failure occurred in the month when delivery performance dropped is usually not investigated successfully.

Bottom Line: The value of certification is dependent on the registrar and the assigned auditors.
The value of complaince to the standards is the structure and tools it offers to the enlightened leader who sees the ISO model for its potential.

I will get off my soap box now.

[Jennifer Kirley]

In Reply to Parent Post by Wes Bucey

One thing I would emphasize is the pure value of the Body of Knowledge for each certification. An organization can use the BOK as a yardstick to measure the competence of certified and non-certified personnel. Explain how the BOK is derived as a consensus opinion of experts in a variety of industries.

Ditto what Wes said. It's all about the learning, the sum of its parts.

Since any of our jobs is not likely to provide in-depth training and experience in the entire BOK, it makes sense to study for it with the intent of taking the exam. I got a lot out of my self study for the CQE. I got satisfaction of receiving the certificate for my effort, but the knowledge is what matters on the job.

It's about the journey, not the destination.

[Govind]

In Reply to Parent Post by Hershal

I have a presentation next February to prepare for at the local ASQ chapter and am curious as to the value or otherwise of certifications - not just personal value, but organizational value. They don't have to be ASQ only.

If you have some good things to say or not so good, let's hear them.....

Thanks in advance.

I was asked a similar question during my networking session in India.
I even posted a thread in ASQ Discussion board.
http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/...=15&forumID=52

The value of certifications (ASQ/NON ASQ) to an organization is a bit subjective. Mostly difficult to calculate and put a $ value.
Let us assume, in a real life scenario one had to calculate a field failure rate, producer/consumer risk, detect an out of control situation in a process, identify potential risk in a design/process via FMEA, calculate the optimal point using RSM, any many other applications, with or without a certification they may have done this anyway. So where is value of certification come from?

Speaking for myself; Out of 6 ASQ Certifications I did, there are some areas in the Body of knowledge; I came to know for the very first time. Later understood the concept, application and if I come across a situation I know where to look for. There are many areas in the Body of Knowledge; I understood with more clarity to the subject. With this clarity I was able to further explain to my colleagues of misinterpretation in such concepts and revise existing methods. All these amount to $$$ benefit to the organization. It is because I prepared for the Certification exam, I reviewed the Body of Knowledge. Hence indirectly Certification has added value to the organization.

One would argue what if we had a training covering Body of Knowledge and assess by post assessment instead of a “professional certification”. Yes, can do. As long as the post assessment is testing the trainee adequately to the cognitive levels expected for the job function. This argument is analogous to “why we need to register for ISO 9001 by a registration body. Why not self assesses and declare compliance”. Professional certification through a standard body provides a third party unbiased assessment of an individual’s understanding of the body of knowledge. For an outsider these professional certifications add credibility.

As an example there is a new elementary school that is started in our next school district and the principal has a Harvard education. Just because of the perception that the Principal may be able to bring higher quality of education to that school (even before the school started), the real estate prices/ apartment rental in this area were upwards.

Here is another thread from the ASQ discussion board that a Government Agency asking for PMP as a contract criteria
http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/...t=0&forumID=52

I remember a situation few years back, our reliability manager asked if the External trainer had an ASQ CRE before awarding the contract for training the Reliability engineers.

May be some day, we will start seeing Customer contractual requirements stating “professional Qualification” requirement for awarding contacts.

Regards,
Govind.

[Coury Ferguson]

In Reply to Parent Post by Hershal

I have a presentation next February to prepare for at the local ASQ chapter and am curious as to the value or otherwise of certifications - not just personal value, but organizational value. They don't have to be ASQ only.

If you have some good things to say or not so good, let's hear them.....

Thanks in advance.

That would be hard to say, but being a hiring manager, for the organization, my value of the "Certification" is not going to sway me to select someone that has ASQ Certification or someone that may be missing the certification.

Don't get me wrong, I feel that the ASQ certification adds some value to the person possessing the certification.

Just to play the "Devils advocate:" If I have two potential candidates for a Quality Engineering position that I have available, they both have pretty good qualifications. Like, 1 candidate has 10 years in Quality Engineering and does not have the CQE, and the other has 10 Years with the ASQ CQE, I would go with the one fits within the organizational structure the best.

In summation: To me it wouldn't make a difference in the Qualifications of a candidate.

I support the ASQ Certifications, but, it bears nothing on my decision.

As for the Salary differences: I believe that the ASQ Salary is just a little bias because it only asks it membership.

[Wes Bucey]

In Reply to Parent Post by Coury Ferguson

That would be hard to say, but being a hiring manager, for the organization, my value of the "Certification" is not going to sway me to select someone that has ASQ Certification or someone that may be missing the certification.

Don't get me wrong, I feel that the ASQ certification adds some value to the person possessing the certification.

Just to play the "Devils advocate:" If I have two potential candidates for a Quality Engineering position that I have available, they both have pretty good qualifications. Like, 1 candidate has 10 years in Quality Engineering and does not have the CQE, and the other has 10 Years with the ASQ CQE, I would go with the one fits within the organizational structure the best.

In summation: To me it wouldn't make a difference in the Qualifications of a candidate.

I support the ASQ Certifications, but, it bears nothing on my decision.

As for the Salary differences: I believe that the ASQ Salary is just a little bias because it only asks it membership.

Yes. ASQ certs are just a factor, just because a candidate has a certificate is no more a guarantee of on-the-job success than an MBA degree from Harvard. Kind of like the post above (ChuckHughes) which hints an ISO certificate is no guarantee of good quality products.

[Wesley Richardson]

Hi Hershal and the group,

I have always felt that the greatest value of a professional certification is to the individual. The body of knowledge provides a listing of knowledge areas and preparing for the exam provides review of those areas. When I have taught ASQ certification refresher courses, I have yet to have a student that was familiar with all areas of the respective body of knowledge. Of course, until a person applies what they have read, they really haven't "learned" the subject. The ASQ certification exams certainly could be much more difficult, but even at their current level, they do provide a type of discrimination of individual's knowledge of the topics. I also agree with the previous statements that a person or company can have a given certification, and still not be very good or produce poor products. At the same time, some people that have excellent skills do not have a certification in their primary area.

I also tell my students that when they receive certification, do not think of it as the end, but rather the beginning of their learning path. This is the same for companies that achieve ISO 9001 Certification or ISO/IEC 17025 Accreditation, that should just be one point along the path of improving their quality systems.

Wes R.