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Can Internal Auditors Audit the Internal Audit Process / System? How?


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  Post Number #1  
Old 3rd September 2006, 08:19 PM
darkafar

 
 
Total Posts: 176
Question Can Internal Auditors Audit the Internal Audit Process / System? How?

Could internal auditors audit internal audit process? If so, how to avoid contradicting “Auditors shall not audit their own work.”?

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  Post Number #2  
Old 3rd September 2006, 08:36 PM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 8,456
Thumbs up Re: Can Internal Auditors Audit the Internal Audit Process / System?

It seems to me that as long as the internal auditor doesn't audit the records of any work they actually performed, (and if they're not responsible for the audit program) then it would be O.K.
You would want to ensure that they were 'objective and impartial', so being careful which candidate was chosen is important.

Andy
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  Post Number #3  
Old 3rd September 2006, 09:54 PM
Duke Okes

 
 
Total Posts: 809
Re: Can Internal Auditors Audit the Internal Audit Process / System? How?

I agree with Andy. If this were not possible there would have to be a lot more external auditors contracting with companies. I've helped may companies achieve registration, and no problems with auditor independence.
  Post Number #4  
Old 3rd September 2006, 10:30 PM
Sambasi

 
 
Total Posts: 85
Re: Can Internal Auditors Audit the Internal Audit Process / System? How?

It is possible this way.

After you complete an internal audit, choose an auditor who was not in the team of auditors for the earlier completed internal audit.He can audit the entire internal audit process.
  Post Number #5  
Old 4th September 2006, 03:48 AM
Dr. L. Ramakrishnan

 
 
Total Posts: 494
Re: Can Internal Auditors Audit the Internal Audit Process / System? How?

Dear Darkafar,

You have posed an interesting question. In my opinion, the Management Representative is the one who commissions the internal audit (client) and he is responsible for the intenral audit process. Hence I would not expect him to carry out an audit on "internal audit". Any internal auditor who has not been involved in establishing/maintaining the procedure for internal audit should be able to audit the internal auditing procedure. Another approach may be to invite an "external" auditor to carry out an audit of the intenral auditing process. This audit being a conformance audit, should ideally confine itself to the assessment of conformance to the established procedure (e.g. audit programme, auditor qualification, audit elements etc.) rather than to assess the quality/content of the internal audit report(s). The latter should be left to be discussed between the Management Representative (client) and the team of internal auditors or the Lead internal auditor.

with best regards,

Ramakrishnan
  Post Number #6  
Old 8th September 2006, 04:20 PM
Hershal's Avatar
Hershal

 
 
Total Posts: 2,446
Re: Can Internal Auditors Audit the Internal Audit Process / System? How?

I would suggest that they MUST audit the internal audit process for two reasons:

1. It is part of the QMS, regardless of the standard, and they must audit the entire QMS.....

2. How else will you determine improvements or issues within the process?

Just my thoughts.....

Hershal
  Post Number #7  
Old 8th September 2006, 04:32 PM
SteelMaiden's Avatar
SteelMaiden

 
 
Total Posts: 4,193
Re: Can Internal Auditors Audit the Internal Audit Process / System? How?

I'm with Andy. I just make sure that I ask two auditors to audit the audit program. That way if one audited an area, the second can look at that audit and vice versa. It has always worked for me with no negative input from the registrar. Another thing we have done is MR from Environmental is included in quality audit audit and I have been on audit team for environmental audits. This is a little more questionable, as I end up responsible for a lot of environmental things, but I attempt to maintain impartiality.
  Post Number #8  
Old 11th September 2006, 08:56 AM
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GStough

 
 
Total Posts: 1,136
Re: Can Internal Auditors Audit the Internal Audit Process / System? How?

We just had our internal audit process audited by the lead auditor at one of our other manufacturing facilities. He drove over (it's about a 4-hr. drive) last Thursday and did the audit on Friday. This is how we do it to ensure that internal auditors don't audit their own work. This removes any doubt and ensures a completely impartial audit.
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