The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > SPC Monitoring and Statistical Analysis Techniques


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30th December 1999, 06:59 AM
Marcin
Unregistered Guest

 
Posts: n/a
Question SPC from Each Cavity? Small Plastic Parts using Injection Molding Machine

We manufacture small plastic parts using injection-moulding machine. Sometimes there are 2, 3 or 4 cavities in the moulding-tool, so in the same time machine injects and moulds 2, 3 or 4 parts.
The question is if we need to measure (for Ppk, Cpk and Cmk) parts from each cavity or it is enough to measure only one (always the same of course) that represents current injection process.

------------------
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 4th January 2000, 08:52 AM
pdboilermaker
Unregistered Guest

 
Posts: n/a
For this application, it would make sense to collect data on each of the cavities, each cavity is slightly different from the time the tool is new. After the tool is put into use each cavity will "wear" slightly different over time. Good data samples will allow you to detect this wear gradually over time (possibly used as a predictive maintenance tool). Allows you to say "hey this tool needs to be fixed before it becomes a problem for our customer" rather than your customer saying "part "a" will not fit into part "b" anymore, it was good but now it's not, please answer this corrective action explaining why"
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 4th January 2000, 09:12 AM
Marcin
Unregistered Guest

 
Posts: n/a
Question

Yes it's true that each cavity will "wear" slightly different over time. But the process will be the same for all cavities. If the process is bad for one, it is bad for others as well. Am I right? I forgot to mention that besides SPC measurements there are "Special Characteristic" measurements performed during the process for important dimensions (for each cavity). And this makes us sure that each cavity remains within required tolerance and during the life-time of the tool gradual wearing will be detected.

So now, is it necessary to measure samples from each cavity to follow the process?

Answering Marc Smith: automotive.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 5th January 2000, 01:44 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is online now
Your Elsmar Cove Host

Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Age: 59
 
Posts: 15,852
Thanks Given to Others: 1,892
Thanked 1,563 Times in 1,016 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 604
Karma: 11544
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Marc Send a message via Skype™ to Marc
Yin Yang

You gave 2 important criteria:

Automotive
Special Characterics

The probable answer is - yes. I say probable as that has been my experience, but your customer is the ultimate in determining requirements.

In so far as it goes, the equal wear theory is typically correct, but not always. In addition, an individual cavity could be damaged in a number of ways.

I would communicate with your customer and ask them what their expectations. In the QS/Automotive world I would expect your customer to require data from each cavity.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 5th January 2000, 01:46 AM
Kevin Mader's Avatar
Kevin Mader Kevin Mader is offline
One of THE Original Covers!

Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Wallingford, CT USA
Age: 43
 
Posts: 1,158
Thanks Given to Others: 22
Thanked 63 Times in 43 Posts
Karma Power: 94
Karma: 1335
Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Mader
Marcin,

I agree with most of what is written above. Keep in mind that while the process is the same, the results for each cavity can be quite different.

Let me give you an example. We have parts being produced for us with a multicavity tools (2,4, 16, and even one 64 cavity tool). The one that comes to mind was a 4 cavity tool. Eventually over time, we began to receive 1 bad cavity, then 2, eventually 3. Our supplier did not use process controls (nor inspection for that matter). This lead to production delays. Not a desired state.

What had happened was that thin slides/inserts within the mold began to wear and crack over time. Each failed at different rates and times. If they had been running SPC on each cavity (even a modest 2 or 3 part sample for each) they would have detected tool wear before failure of one or more slides. This could have been detected with variable or attribute data. The thing to remember that although a single machine and process are being used, each cavity represents an individual population. Combining the cavities creates a bimodal distribution, which is often difficult interpret in detecting potential/actual issues (and incorrect).

My suggestion: measure each separately.

Regards,

Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10th April 2000, 12:16 PM
Don Winton's Avatar
Don Winton Don Winton is offline
dWizard

Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Tullahoma, TN
Age: 53
 
Posts: 475
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Karma Power: 63
Karma: 488
Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.
Spin!

<font COLOR=RED><BLOCKQUOTE>What is Cmk?</BLOCKQUOTE></font>

This is a term used for machine capability. See:

http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000067.html

Regards,

dWizard

[This message has been edited by Don Winton (edited 10 April 2000).]
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > SPC Monitoring and Statistical Analysis Techniques

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Benchmarks for Plastic Injection Molding - Let's Share! Helmut Jilling Benchmarking - Sharing Data 17 11th November 2009 07:07 AM
Short molding issue - Plastic injection molding from a multi cavity mold philiplim Quality Management Related Issues 13 18th February 2009 04:08 PM
What to manage after Plastic Injection Molding - Plastic Parts sadhusong Manufacturing and Related Processes 15 5th April 2008 03:21 AM
Plastic Injection Molding - Medical Devices - How to Clean Parts Please gregfish Manufacturing and Related Processes 6 6th June 2006 08:51 AM
Cmk calculation - Small plastic parts using injection-moulding machine Marcin SPC Monitoring and Statistical Analysis Techniques 2 4th January 2000 10:59 AM



The time now is 04:37 PM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts