The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > SPC Monitoring and Statistical Analysis Techniques


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27th April 2000, 12:54 AM
Marloun
Unregistered Guest

 
Posts: n/a
Default SPC (minimizing defects) Vs Poka Yoke (zeroing out defects)

It seems that a lot of companies are taking up interest in Poka Yoke. I had read a portion of Shingo's book, Zero Quality Control and I have to say that I was (still am) very impressed. Shingo points out that the big difference between SPC and Poka Yoke is that in SPC, you will be minimizing defects but in Poka Yoke, you will be zeroing out defects.
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 27th April 2000, 01:02 PM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is offline
Your Elsmar Cove Host

Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Age: 59
 
Posts: 15,859
Thanks Given to Others: 1,895
Thanked 1,568 Times in 1,020 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 605
Karma: 11569
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Marc Send a message via Skype™ to Marc
Yin Yang

Poke-Yoke is used to mistake-proof processes, typically by the use of sensors (read: Identify Defects) in equipment in a production line. The idea is to identify defects as early in the process as possible where it costs the least to 'repair' or react to. The bottom line to Poke-Yoke is it is in fact 100% mechanical or electronic or electro-mechanical inspection. If you're a Poke-Yoke oriented person, Sensors magazine should be in your mailbox every month.

SPC is used to monitor and control processes. It is not an inspection.

In my opinion they are not really very closely 'related'. See Poka_yoke_B.pdf

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 27 April 2000).]
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 3rd May 2000, 06:49 PM
beverly.daniels@intel.com
Unregistered Guest

 
Posts: n/a
Red Face

Quote:
Originally posted by Marc Smith:

"Poke-Yoke is used to mistake-proof processes, typically by the use of sensors (read: Identify Defects) in equipment in a production line. The idea is to identify defects as early in the process as possible where it costs the least to 'repair' or react to. The bottom line to Poke-Yoke is it is in fact 100% mechanical or electronic or electro-mechanical inspection."
Although you are correct that many PokeYokes are simple mechanical 100% inspections other Poke Yokes are not. The kind you describe are known as Detection PokeYokes. There are two other types. These 2 types are Preventive. And are much more effective than SPC in their specific applications.

First let me define the 2 types: One type detects an error BEFORE it becomes a defect. typically, the "rework" required for the error is very simple and quick and obvious. (Ex: a part is placed upside down on an assembly. the Poke Yoke detects this before the part is actually assembled or attached. "rework" is that the operator re-orients the part. 2nd example. An assy needs 4 bolts. The operator is distracted and forgets to install the last bolt. A sensor detects this before the assy moves on and the operator installs the bolt) OK at this point you still have some "hidden rework" and cycle time delay, but it is minimal. (and one might debate the semantics of the error vs defect, but that is how Shingo classified it and there is a real world distinction in cost and time.

The other is a true prevention Poke Yoke in every definition of the term. It is typically a mechanical "thing" that prevents the error from being made in the first place. (Ex: that upside down part from the previous example can only be installed in the correct way. Usually the use of a pin or slot or other device that makes misassemble impossible - at least without the use of a high force istallaltion device: read large mallet.)

Now SPC and the last two types of Poke Yokes that I have just described are actually complementary. They do different things. The significant difference is that Poke Yokes are targeted at MISTAKES. Mistakes are NOT variation based. They are true attributes data. They cannot be described by a continuous distribution function. SPC cannot be used effectively on the input side of the MISTAKE (at least not until we can monitor brain waves and such...) Output SPC (the event must happen to be plotted) is an after the fact kind of thing and has limited utility. It CAN detect when mistakes are starting to occur more often and one could look to environmental changes (morale, training levels, distractions, etc) to maintain a minimum level of mistakes. (should always be used for safety/accident data!) However, most manufacturing mistakes are relatively cheap to PREVENT and thus this is a much better approach than SPC from a defect reduction standpoint.

The first type of poke Yoke (100% detection of the defect) is absolutely the best approach for those defects that have a serious affect should they occur. Especially if the occurence rate is fairly rare. SPC will detect shifts in the occurence rate, but will not (nor is it intended to) guarantee that all defects are caught. Hence the first type of Poke Yoke is an absolute for rarish events that can cause serious injury, or very high warranty costs or large cycle time affects.

Particularly if the defect is caused by a mistake, rather than variation in some input factor. And of course, we can't put SPC on every input factor that can cause a defect. (especially since we'll never know what they all are!) So this type of Poke Yoke is a perfect safety net (pun intended!).

SPC and Poke Yokes really live in two different worlds with only a slight overlap...Both are equally valuable, just in different situations.

Hope this clarifies thing a little.

Bev Daniels
beverly.daniels -- Intel.com
(The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer. In fact, they probably bear absolutely no resemblance to those of my employer)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 3rd May 2000, 07:05 PM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is offline
Your Elsmar Cove Host

Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Age: 59
 
Posts: 15,859
Thanks Given to Others: 1,895
Thanked 1,568 Times in 1,020 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 605
Karma: 11569
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Marc Send a message via Skype™ to Marc
Yin Yang

Bev: You are 100% correct. I admit at times I'm pretty brief in my responses. Your response was detailed and very much appreciated! Thanks!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > SPC Monitoring and Statistical Analysis Techniques

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Poka Yoke - Information and Input of Poke Yoke example Daniele Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 6 6th November 2009 07:40 PM
Poka-Yoke - Definition - How do you define Poka-Yoke? wdavenportIII Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations 10 27th July 2009 06:26 PM
Is Poka-Yoke Old Hat? Is Poka-Yoke still a valid concept? The Fixer Nonconformance and Corrective Action 28 12th July 2006 02:52 AM
Zero Defects & Taguchi Loss Function - ISO 9000 and the Zero Defects Philosophy Marc Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 32 25th April 2004 10:26 AM
Defects and Systems - Zero Defects and its proponents, Poka Yoke, etc. Don Winton Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 14 6th March 2000 06:47 PM



The time now is 06:47 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts