Internal Process Auditing - Auditor Unhappy - Wants Layered Process Audits

[jkittle]

Can any one help me with this issue? I have recently taken a new job with a tier one automotive company and the company has open issues from their last surveillance audit. The auditor was not pleased with their internal audits and said that they did not have adequate process audits and that they should look at a layered audit technique.

I have come from an ISO 9000 system and I’m not sure what the auditor is talking about. In the ISO system we focused on auditing the quality system and compliance to it and our own internal procedures.


Thanks for your help!!!

[Duke Okes]

Look at the customer-specific requirements of the companies you do business with. For example, I believe Diamler-Chrysler requires layered process audits.

[cortiz01]

Yes, Dcx request this as customer specific requirements.... as well as GM on the QSB.

[AndyN]

Jkittle:

Your auditor is out of line in suggesting them. There are many threads/posts here about the use of LPA's, however, they are fundamentally different to the process audits required by ISO/TS 16949.

Apart from anything else, there's no requirement to have specifically trained auditors and the whole LPA thing is supposed to be run by Manufacturing personnel, by preference. To use LPA's instead of correcting the real issue (which sounds like ineffective implementation of your QMS audits) is a receipe for disaster. This isn't advice based on theory, but the ongoing practical application of LPA's

Beware.........

Andy

[jkittle]

Thank you to all of you for the information. I do want to clear up one thing though. The reason our auditor recommended the LPA's is because we are a tier two on a couple of parts that are DCX parts.

This actually brings up another question, as the tier two are we still required to do LPA's? The only thing our customer requires is the PSO for new parts.


Jerry

[cortiz01]

The PSO (Fifth edition) for new parts asks for LPAs, so, if your customer requires the PSO, then you have to accomplish the LPA requirement.

[AndyN]

Originally Posted by cortiz01

The PSO (Fifth edition) for new parts asks for LPAs, so, if your customer requires the PSO, then you have to accomplish the LPA requirement.

Not true .............unless your customer passes on the DCX PSO requirements. If they have their own PSO requirements, then, unless LPA's are in that requirement, you only have to do the PSO. I'm thinking that because you do DCX parts isn't sufficient a reason since they don't go directly to DCX (or do they?). I know of other companies who supply DCX as a level 2, but they only do LPA's because their customer requires them.

Andy

[Helmut Jilling]

Originally Posted by jkittle

Thank you to all of you for the information. I do want to clear up one thing though. The reason our auditor recommended the LPA's is because we are a tier two on a couple of parts that are DCX parts.

This actually brings up another question, as the tier two are we still required to do LPA's? The only thing our customer requires is the PSO for new parts.

Jerry

You do not supply DCX, so you are not directly responsible to meet DCX requirements, except those passed down by your direct customer. You are permitted to do them, if you find them to be beneficial. It is also different if he "recommended" them, or if he required them.