Welding - Is welding always a special process per ISO9001:2000 Clause 7.5.2

I want to know that, if a sensitive welding operation, can be verified, tested e.g, through hydrualic testing, radiographic testing, or by some non-distructive testing, latest crack detection methodS before it is put into use, then should it be dealt as SPECIAL PROCESS (clause 7.5.2)?

Re: Welding - Is welding always a special process per AS9001 Clause 7.5.2

Since you are working to AS9100 system I think you will find that all your aerospace customers concider welding a special process.

Re: Welding - Is welding always a special process per AS9001 Clause 7.5.2

And if you will be welding for Aerospace customers, you should know almost all of them require you to be NADCAP approved by now. AS9100 registration is not enough for welding process.

Re: Welding - Is welding always a special process per AS9001 Clause 7.5.2

I am sorry, i didnt state that i am talking about ISO 9001:2000 based Quality Management system not AS. Now can the organization based on ISO take exclusion from 7.5.2 even if sensitive welding activites are being carried out? Welds are tested through NDT procedures, and hydrostatic testing, RT and other crack detection methods.

Re: Welding - Is welding always a special process per AS9001 Clause 7.5.2

Sohail said:

I am sorry, i didnt state that i am talking about ISO 9001:2000 based Quality Management system not AS. Now can the organization based on ISO take exclusion from 7.5.2 even if sensitive welding activites are being carried out? Welds are tested through NDT procedures, and hydrostatic testing, RT and other crack detection methods.

Click to expand...

In refering to ISO section 7.5.2 the output of processes should provide a finished product that meets your customers requirments. It should be in the best interest of your company to develop and implement processes that are fully capable of meeting finished-product requirements;if you do then your company minimizes or eliminates the possibility of nonconforming product.

Also when processes are such that the validation/verification of the product specification cannot be fully verified by exmination of finished product either at an earlier stage, in-process inspection, or at final acceptance testing, process validation must be performed. The inability to ensure that every item is verified may be due to the nature of the testing that has to be peformed i.e. Shear testing, flamability testing that is known to be "destructive ". In such cases, the process must be validated and records maintianed for example we have personnel that perform soldering work and we ensure that they are certified to IPC standards to be able to solder and all traininig records are kept as well.

It seems that you are validating your process if you use the tests that you mentioned above, but you should also check to ensure that you don't have any customer stated requirements concerning processes like welding, soldering, composites, etc.


Best regards,

al40

Re: Welding - Is welding always a special process per AS9001 Clause 7.5.2

Dear al40,

Thus i think i got the answer that though welding is a special process, but since the process is being validated during the process and inspected (every mm during radiography) , so we can exlude special process requirements.

Thanks and best regards

Re: Welding - Is welding always a special process per AS9001 Clause 7.5.2

Dear all,

Thanks for very valuable discussion and conculsion.

Still, Is anybody in a position to tell what are the most common type of special processes found in industry. Yes question is very silly, but i need some suggestions.

Regards all

Re: Welding - Is welding always a special process per AS9001 Clause 7.5.2

I am still doubtful that everything about a weld can be checked by subsequent testing. Could you tell what rods/wire was used; if rods, were they pre-heated and if so to what temperature; how was the joint prepared; what amperage was used on the welding set; etc?

In terms of examples - how about making matches (the only way to tell if they work is to strike them), or ring-pulls on cans, or bullets or packing a parachute - the only way you will know if it works is to use it - and you may not get a second chance.

Re: Welding - Is welding always a special process per AS9001 Clause 7.5.2

Welding has always been considered a 'special process'. The quality of a weldment, in its entirety, cannot be determined through any amount of fancy inspections.

Welding requires many controls to be in place; operator/welder certification/qualification, welding materials controls/storage/conditioning, weldment material preparation/preconditioning, approval of welding procedures, and so on.

Without these kinds of controls, it is highly likely that latent defects, un-inspectable by the techniques mentioned, can be introduced.

Re: Welding - Is welding always a special process per AS9001 Clause 7.5.2

AndyN said:

Welding has always been considered a 'special process'. The quality of a weldment, in its entirety, cannot be determined through any amount of fancy inspections.

Welding requires many controls to be in place, operator/welder certification/qualification, welding materials controls/storage/conditioning, weldment material preparation/preconditioing, approval of welding procedures, and so on.

without these kinds of controls, it is highly likely that latent defects, un-inspectable by the techniques mentioned, can be introduced.

Click to expand...

I agree with Andy. Any process that produces a product/result of which its integrity can only be verified through a test that renders the product unsaleable is considered a "special process." No big deal. In automotive ALL manufacturing processes must be validated.

One of the best examples that I have heard was from one of my audit course participants who represented a ready-mix concrete company. I never realized the science behind- and the impressive controls applied to making concrete for load-bearing columns in hi-rise buildings...

Stijloor.