The Elsmar Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to ProblemsElsmar Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
UL - Underwriters Laboratories - Health Sciences
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Nonconformance and Corrective Action
Forum Username

Wooden Line

Questions about Corrective - Preventive Action System(s)

Search the Elsmar Cove
Search Elsmar
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Follow Marc & Elsmar
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed  Marc Smith's Google+ Page  Marc Smith's Linked In Page   Marc Smith's Elsmar Cove YouTube Page  Marc Smith's Facebook Page  Elsmar Cove Twitter Feed
Elsmar Cove Groups
Elsmar Cove Google+ Group  Elsmar Cove LinkedIn Group  Elsmar Cove Facebook Group
Sponsor Links

Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:

International Quality Services
Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting
Bob Doering's
Correct SPC - Precision Machining

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook
IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors
SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers
Quality Digest Portal
IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology
ASQ - American Society for Quality
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  Post Number #1  
Old 14th July 1998, 12:29 AM

Total Posts: n/a
Thank You! Questions about Corrective - Preventive Action System(s)

I have some questions about corrective and preventive actions.

1) Is there any reasonable reason to treat them separately ?
2) Doing this, improves our system performance ?
3) What about if I considere an action taken as preventive and my registrar "thinks" it is corrective ?

Please answer, we are in the middle of a swamp with 4.14.


Sponsored Links
  Post Number #2  
Old 14th July 1998, 08:16 AM
Ram narayan

Total Posts: n/a

You should not treat Corrective and Preventive actions seperately. Let me explain you with a live example from one of the companies I am consulting with.

The problem was that the Ball bearing application failed because of non application of the grease on the bearing. This was a customer compliant. 4.14 should be implemented in the following steps:

1. Immediate corrective action should be taken so that the customer will not get any bearing without grease. Eg: 100% inspection for grease application at the end of the line before packing. This is Corrective action. This alone will not solve the problem. This is like taking a headache tablet immediately when you get an headache.

2. You have to go into your Process FMEA and find out where the problem lies in your company because of which the grease has not been applied. For eg: The PFMEA tells that one of the potential causes of the problem is that there was an air block in the grease dispenser. Now the action you take like automatically stopping the line when the air block occurs in the grease dispenser is a Preventive action. This action will prevent further problems from occuring.This is like going to a doctor, finding the causes of headache and permenantly solving the problem without any recurrence.

3. You have to extend this preventive actions as a system. Eg: you have to install this system in all Grease dispensing machines, even though the problem has occurred in only one grease dispensing machines.

Sponsored Links

  Post Number #3  
Old 16th July 1998, 11:24 AM
Scott Knutson

Total Posts: n/a
If I may, while I agree that you should not seperate the two, I think that preventive actions goes beyond performing a corrective action and then assuring that it is prevented from happening again. A company need to actively look for problems based on data trends. The standard refers to quality records, service reports, audit results, etc. as data to be analyzed to "eliminate potential causes of nonconformances." Preventive actions are a proactive approach to assuring conformance. Corrective actions are a reactive approach to assuring conformance. I hope this helps.
  Post Number #4  
Old 16th July 1998, 11:51 AM
Marc's Avatar

Total Posts: 24,682
First of all, look at Scott's answer. You are looking at two different things - Corrective vs Preventive. If your registrar says something is corrective and you think it is preventive you should have good reasoning why - for which you need to well understand the differences between the two.

There are aosl some great threads on the 'old' forum you might want to read. There's lots of info there!

<a href=""> Preventive Action</a>

<a href="". Need for Corrective Action</a>

<a href=""> Confirming Corrective Action Effectiveness</a>

<a href=""> 8-D Analysis</a>

<a href=""> Effectiveness of Corrective-Preventative Actions</a>

<a href=""> Preventive Action vs Registrar's Definition </a>

And there are probably others if you do a search or scroll through the list.
  Post Number #5  
Old 16th July 1998, 01:22 PM
Marc's Avatar

Total Posts: 24,682
Corrective Actions are things done to fix a problem. "I replaced the worn fixture." Or "I replaced the paint spray nozzle."

Preventive Actions are generally an inspection or test - which includes PokeYoke, mistake-proofing.

A Preventive Action is one which virtually eliminates the possibility of the mistake happening again *or* virtually guarantees the mistake will be caught (such as an inline automatic 100% 'inspection' specific for the problem/mistake).

Preventive Actions are a part of Continuous Improvement as well, by the way.
  Post Number #6  
Old 19th July 1998, 02:23 PM

Total Posts: n/a
Thanks to all of yow, but may problem is not with the definitio nor with the approach. It is with management. We were requested by our registrar to have preventive actions ( as the norm says ) and we had them, but there were not classified into preventive or corrective actions. We've decided to modify our CAR forms and named it Corrective-Preventive Action Request and we added extra room for defining explicitly preventive actions. I still thinking that classifying actions into preventive or corrective is useless. I think clause 4.14 should be re-worded requesting a formal system for continuos quality product and services improvement.

Thanks for your opinions.
Ovidio Molina

  Post Number #7  
Old 20th July 1998, 10:21 AM
Scott Knutson

Total Posts: n/a
Ovidio -
It almost sounds like your registrar is looking for evidence that you do in fact partake in preventive actions. If your registrar thinks an action is corrective, then you must be able to persuade them that it is not, based on the objective evidence that you have. Can you give me a more specific example of the situation. Maybe I can offer some better assistance.
  Post Number #8  
Old 20th July 1998, 07:56 PM
barb butrym

Total Posts: 792
Wearing my consultants hat:

I am from the school that there are 3 not 2 parts of the system. Short term CA (immediate fix) Long term CA (eliminate the root cause)and PA (improvements and modifications to eliminate potential issues that have not blossomed into a mess yet.) To keep everyone on the same page, the form for PA is different, and meant to be user friendly at all levels of the most PA comes from the task level up, unless someone is assigned to the fix. Gets more use that way.....for what ever reason.

OK now for the Auditors hat:

Just prove to me that there is a system to get things fixed to the root cause level, that eliminates potential to screw up gets reported (kicked up)properly to Mgmt review and is working/effective. Records are kept as you define.....follow up and close.

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Discussion Forums > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Nonconformance and Corrective Action

Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Questions regarding Non-Conformance, Corrective Action and Preventive Action bill1025 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions 7 22nd July 2011 10:54 PM
How to measure CAPA (Corrective Action Preventive Action) System Performance QA Memphis Nonconformance and Corrective Action 20 9th August 2010 11:36 AM
Measuring Corrective and Preventive Action System Effectiveness meta124 Nonconformance and Corrective Action 32 3rd December 2008 08:38 AM
Corrective Action and Preventive Action clauses - ISO 9001 - Corrective Action Ace Nonconformance and Corrective Action 6 26th November 2001 12:47 AM
PREVENTIVE ACTION - Separating Corrective & Preventive Action. What am I gonna do? Raffy Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 2 3rd September 2001 04:25 PM

The time now is 09:34 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


Marc Timothy Smith -
8466 LeSourdsville-West Chester Road, Olde West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929
513 341-6272
NOTE: This forum uses "cookies".