The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Inspection and Test, Sampling and Related Topics


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28th June 1999, 03:16 PM
Andy Bassett Andy Bassett is offline
An Early Cover

Registration Date: Jun 1999
Location: Donegal Ireland
 
Posts: 278
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 48
Karma: 15
Andy Bassett has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Please Help! Inspection Plans - Subcontracted Electronics Assembly

Can anyone help me out with a small problem. I am working as a consultant for a small (6 People) computer manufacturer near Dusseldorf. The company has had to learn from zero all about in-coming inspection, final inspection, inspection at the supplier etc.
As assembly is actually sub-contracted they need a very good Assembly/Inspection Plan, what they have done is a fair effort, but to help them does anybody have a sample/example of a Assembly/Inspection Plan for a peice of electonic equipment, ie computer, printer etc.
Regards

------------------
Andy B
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 29th June 1999, 10:53 AM
Kevin Mader's Avatar
Kevin Mader Kevin Mader is offline
One of THE Original Covers!

Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Wallingford, CT USA
Age: 43
 
Posts: 1,158
Thanks Given to Others: 22
Thanked 63 Times in 43 Posts
Karma Power: 94
Karma: 1335
Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Mader
Question

Andy,

Have your clients performed FMEAs or done other Risk Analysis? These processes point to where the need for inspection at Incoming Inspection are. For instance, if during Risk Analysis, your clients had determined that each circuit board must be individually wrapped, part of your incoming inspection plan may be to visually observe for proper packaging.

Regards,

Kevin
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 29th June 1999, 11:27 AM
Andy Bassett Andy Bassett is offline
An Early Cover

Registration Date: Jun 1999
Location: Donegal Ireland
 
Posts: 278
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 48
Karma: 15
Andy Bassett has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Hello Kevin

No they have not done any FMEA Analysis. On another thread i managed to ascertain that FMEA Analyis cannot really be outsourced, and i have found a company to train them with a 1 day FMEA course in August.

However this will come a little late for their current product. If i can show them a Inspection Plan for a similar product it would help to shape their thoughts. Typical questions that they are asking are.
1. Do they have to define the assembly process themselves(Consider assembly is sub-contracted).
2. Just how detailed do the inpsection steps have to be (ie isnt 'check screws after tightening' a little over the top).
3. They have designed some quite detailed inspection plans, but the employees seem to be prone to 'Tick Syndrome' without really checking.
I should just mention that the Assembler is ISO 9001 certified and currently applying for QS 9000.

By the way, i have never heard of Risk Analysis in this how it sounds? Is it a special Technology, or just another name for FMEA?

Regards
Andy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29th June 1999, 07:09 PM
Kevin Mader's Avatar
Kevin Mader Kevin Mader is offline
One of THE Original Covers!

Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Wallingford, CT USA
Age: 43
 
Posts: 1,158
Thanks Given to Others: 22
Thanked 63 Times in 43 Posts
Karma Power: 94
Karma: 1335
Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Mader
Andy,

You guessed right, FMEA is a form of Risk Analysis. Generally speaking, FMEAs live in the automotive world. This is a great tool, however, for any industry. When you get into Medical Devices and Electronic equipment, often times other directives apply where Risk Analysis is expanded on (FDA, CE, etc.). Here, additional requirements must be completed as part of the process.

Taking your questions one by one:

1 What controls are excersized over your Clients suppliers? Does the supplier have a control plan they can send you? Is it satisfactory? Are proper percautions taken to ensure only conforming product is shipped to you? Do you need to perform any Incoming Inspection?

2 What are the Critical Product Characteristics (ie. what characteristics are critical to the operation or functioning of the unit)? Checking screws, unless determined a Critical Characteristic, is probably overkill.

3 Inspection is not a value added operation. It may be a nonvalue added but NECESSARY function however. Which do you have? Inspectors not inspecting might suggest that inspection is overkill, especially if proper precaution were taken when the item was created. It may also point to a deeper problem, so beware.

My suggestion would be to determine what precautions are taken by the supplier and what controls over the supplier are in place. From here, identify the critical characteristics, create an inspection plan using a statistically sound sampling plan. Based on past history, you establish the sampling level that best covers the organization and the customer (alpha/beta risk). Review the plan after a period of record making to see if you were too aggresive or too liberal in your planning.

Got to run......

Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 1st July 1999, 05:00 AM
Andy Bassett Andy Bassett is offline
An Early Cover

Registration Date: Jun 1999
Location: Donegal Ireland
 
Posts: 278
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 48
Karma: 15
Andy Bassett has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Thanks for your comments. As we are about to lauch a second new product i will take your comments on baord TODAY, as next week we will start interviewing the main suppliers for it. When i read the posts in this forum i get the impression that the Auotmotive boys all speak the same language.

When we start to discuss with the suppliers next week i know that they will hide behind the 'We are just a retailer' or 'Nobody has ever asked for that before' or 'Inspection...you will have to pay more for that'.etc etc.

As we are only on our second product, which is completely different to the first we dont have much experience to start setting sampling levels, we will have to shoot in the dark a little.

Reading your comments i had the idea to do the planned FMEA course using the new product with the target of producing a Process FMEA for the actual assembly of the final product which should solve one problem.

Could you tell me anything about the Alpha/Beta that you mentioned, is it something i can use, if its heavily into stats i will reitre hurt.

Regards

Andy Bassett
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 1st July 1999, 03:58 PM
Kevin Mader's Avatar
Kevin Mader Kevin Mader is offline
One of THE Original Covers!

Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Wallingford, CT USA
Age: 43
 
Posts: 1,158
Thanks Given to Others: 22
Thanked 63 Times in 43 Posts
Karma Power: 94
Karma: 1335
Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.Kevin Mader is appreciated, and has over 1300 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Mader
Andy,

I think it would be a good idea to use the new project in your FMEA training. While selecting your source for training, speak with the trainer about your idea to use this new product. I would have to believe that the trainer will agree that this is a good idea.

When preparing an Inspection plan, you should use a statistically proven sampling plan (perhaps ANSI Z1.4). If you arbitrarily select a sampling plan (i.e. 5 because I have 5 fingers), it becomes difficult to prove to a registrar that your plan is proven effective. This does not mean that you can't do that. It means you need to do additional work to prove your method works, which most folks don't want to bother with especially in light of having plans already in existence and proven.

Alpha/Beta risk refers to the Producers/Consumers risk to rejecting a "good" lot or accepting a "bad" lot of product. You need to establish as an organization the level of risk you take (what is tolerable?). Generally, 5% risk is used as the industry norm. This isn't heavy stats, just basic stuff really. You can read more about it in most Sampling books (reference Jurans Quality Handbook, 25.9).

Inspection is a funny topic. Is it necessary? When is it necessary? Different for any given situation. Picking a starting point for Sampling Plan and Sample Size is difficult for most folks. Where do you start? The only way to answer this is to review historical data (how many lots rejected vs. lot received) proportion defective and know the risks encountered. While not very analytical, it can give you the basis for drawing the line in the sand. After collecting history for a period (again difficult to say, depends on your volume) you will need to review the Plan to determine its effectiveness. Not effective, increase your sampling size, frequency, tighten your sampling plan, many, many, considerations. But eventually you get to a plan that will work well in your system. I am giving you the brief on this, but you should read more about sampling plans to draw stronger conclusions for yourself. I hope this helps a bit. Don, are you out there? You tend to explain the OC pretty well.

Regards,

Kevin

Back to the group....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2nd July 1999, 01:41 AM
Don Winton's Avatar
Don Winton Don Winton is offline
dWizard

Registration Date: Nov 1998
Location: Tullahoma, TN
Age: 53
 
Posts: 475
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 9 Posts
Karma Power: 63
Karma: 488
Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.Don Winton is appreciated, and has over 400 Karma points.
Read This!

Quote:
Don, are you out there? You tend to explain the OC pretty well.
Yea, Kevin I am here. Have been real busy the last few weeks and will be so for the next many (I hope). I have started consulting part-time and have two clients thus far (in addition to my full time job). So, things are a bit hectic. Anyway, on with the show:

You have addressed this subject well, to which I will only add-Rather than discuss in detail here the various aspects of sampling, I suggest the following:

For a discussion of sampling plans in general and OC curves in particular http://www.samplingplans.com

There is also an OC curve simulator at my site in the Statistical section. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Don
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 4th July 1999, 08:43 AM
Andy Bassett Andy Bassett is offline
An Early Cover

Registration Date: Jun 1999
Location: Donegal Ireland
 
Posts: 278
Thanks Given to Others: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Karma Power: 48
Karma: 15
Andy Bassett has less than 100 Karma points so far.
Thanks for the Statistics Link, i have gone through it (along with a bottle of wine) and will defintely use it for reference for the future.

For the moment it is a bit further advanced than either my knowledge or my clients experience.

Maybe i am unlucky, but i always seem to be involved with clients who have something less than regular mass production, which seems to make statistics difficult to use (Or maybe i dont know how to use statistics properly?),

For example the current client wants every product to come off the production line to be correct, which means a 100% Final Inspection is planned.

On the supplier side as many goods are coming through retailers, they give you the cold shoulder if you start to question them about their quality levels.

Historical evidence is nearly impossible to come by as this client is only on its second product which is completely different form the first.

I can only assume that we need a little more experience with the products before creating sampling plans with any accuracy.



------------------
Andy B
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Inspection and Test, Sampling and Related Topics

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Traceability in Electronics Assembly harinandu2003 Manufacturing and Related Processes 8 30th March 2009 09:02 AM
Control Plans and Inspection Plans for panel board industries naran FMEA and Control Plans 5 1st March 2009 11:46 AM
Mixed Model Assembly Line Control Plans - Many different options that are available puddycat FMEA and Control Plans 2 10th January 2007 04:24 PM
Process Control Plan and Inspection Plans - Receiving and final inspection required? krishkaar Inspection and Test, Sampling and Related Topics 8 3rd November 2004 07:46 AM
Ishikawa Fishbone for Electronics Assembly M Greenaway Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 5 4th August 2003 04:24 PM



The time now is 11:24 AM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts