What's the 2007 value of ASQ and certifications?

[Stijloor]

Hello Fellow Covers,

So far all the posts in this thread have been negative about ASQ.
I understand the points that are made and concerns that were raised.

But, does anyone have any suggestions how ASQ can be improved?
How they can better serve their members?
Or, is there even a future for ASQ?

Stijloor.

P.S. I am a long-time ASQ member.

[Jim Wynne]

Originally Posted by Stijloor

But, does anyone have any suggestions how ASQ can be improved?
How they can better serve their members?
Or, is there even a future for ASQ?

So long as people keep sending them money, and lusting after their meaningless certifications, nothing will change.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by Stijloor

But, does anyone have any suggestions how ASQ can be improved?

Yep, I do and I won't mince any words.

Stand up, push the handle and flush!

[wmarhel]

Originally Posted by Randy

Yep, I do and I won't mince any words.

Stand up, push the handle and flush!

We never would have expected anything else.

But seriously, ASQ seems to have lost it's purpose in life. It has just taken on the appearance of something without a direction when it has solid, recognized programs already in place. Take CQE certification for instance, which has been basically replaced wtih Six Sigma. ASQ is partially to blame for that because they weren't beating the drum and driving home the relevance and contribution which could be made by a CQE.

Lean is the same way. SME has a solid certification program, along with other organizations, and ASQ is coming along late in the game to jump on the bandwagon. This seems to be a systemic problem. Let's see what the hot topic is in the marketplace and jump on the bandwagon to make some money. How about being "the" leader in a field of expertise, which is what I feel ASQ has stepped away from being? It is just too fragmented.

I think ASQ was once a very respected organization, one which people went to first, regarding questions and concerns about quality topics. Based on conversations I've had with other individuals, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

When it comes to quality, I usually direct people here to the Cove before I suggest ASQ as a source of information.

Wayne

PS: When referring people to the Cove, be sure to warn them that Randy's bark is worse than his bite.

[gpainter]

I joined ASQC back in September of 1995. My main reason was the wealth of information for ISO and QS. I had trouble finding anything on ISO, was able to find only one book at the IU library. I do not use it as often but keep my membership up. I do try to attend a few meetings a year, usually have some good speakers and good tours. My new company pays for it (i believe it was 109 last year and now 120 this year), but I paid for it prior. Many companies like to see it on your resume'. Some companies use only ASQ members for training. I know a consultant who joined for just that reason and picked up several clients just because of ASQ membership.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by wmarhel

PS: When referring people to the Cove, be sure to warn them that Randy's bark is worse than his bite.

That's because a bunch of them got knocked out and 4 got shot out when I was on the street.

[Brizilla]

Originally Posted by Jim Wynne

So long as people keep sending them money, and lusting after their meaningless certifications, nothing will change.

As much as I hold Jim in awe of his experience and knowledge (shameless groveling) I have to totally disagree with his view. I recently finished a hiring search that started in Jan. I hired a 2nd shift quality tech. I needed someone with ace mechanical inspection skills, the ability to train and coach others in inspection techniques and print interpretation and the ability to learn new stuff. We interviewed 20 or so people from the 100+ apps we received. I put ads in two newspapers, here at the Cove, AsQ's website, and at Career Builder. We made two previous offers along the way. One was 4 hours late the other used it as leverage to get a better position. I received a resume from Career Builder from someone who'd worked at a bank the last 4 year. I almost dismissed it under the "not currently experience in my field" category. At the top of here resume though was "certifications" ASQ Certified Quality Technician, ASQ Certified Quality Auditor. I thought hmmmmm let's bring her in. She interviewed well, aced our company test, scored so high on our practical quality test that I had to make an offer to her before she could get out of the building. She'll finish up a months training at the end of the week and move to 2nd shift next week. Her base skills were excellent, she had just been out of the business for awhile. In my experience, the lower levels of those "meaningless" certifications provide a very good indication of their base skill sets, ability to learn, and to some degree a certain level of dedication to their craft. Without the certifications everyone else is just a hodgepodge of skill that you hope will be a good fit.

[Jim Wynne]

Originally Posted by Brizilla

As much as I hold Jim in awe of his experience and knowledge (shameless groveling) I have to totally disagree with his view. I recently finished a hiring search that started in Jan. I hired a 2nd shift quality tech. I needed someone with ace mechanical inspection skills, the ability to train and coach others in inspection techniques and print interpretation and the ability to learn new stuff. We interviewed 20 or so people from the 100+ apps we received. I put ads in two newspapers, here at the Cove, AsQ's website, and at Career Builder. We made two previous offers along the way. One was 4 hours late the other used it as leverage to get a better position. I received a resume from Career Builder from someone who'd worked at a bank the last 4 year. I almost dismissed it under the "not currently experience in my field" category. At the top of here resume though was "certifications" ASQ Certified Quality Technician, ASQ Certified Quality Auditor. I thought hmmmmm let's bring her in. She interviewed well, aced our company test, scored so high on our practical quality test that I had to make an offer to her before she could get out of the building. She'll finish up a months training at the end of the week and move to 2nd shift next week. Her base skills were excellent, she had just been out of the business for awhile. In my experience, the lower levels of those "meaningless" certifications provide a very good indication of their base skill sets, ability to learn, and to some degree a certain level of dedication to their craft. Without the certifications everyone else is just a hodgepodge of skill that you hope will be a good fit.

You got lucky--it's as simple as that. I find it interesting that people who hold ASQ certification in high regard often use competent certified people as exemplars for the value of certification. I find it interesting because any competent CQE (for example) should understand that with a complex subject like competence in a technical discipline, there are many variables, and we should all know that just because phenomenon "A" precedes phenomenon "B" doesn't mean that "A" caused, or was even a factor, in the occurrence of "B." This is the logical fallacy called post hoc ergo prompter hoc (After this, therefore because of this).

I personally have seen far too many incompetent certified people to give it any weight whatsoever in hiring decisions. Nonetheless, I probably should modify the "meaningless" jab. If it helps you to get a job, it has some value, although not necessarily to the company doing the hiring.