Laboratory Scope - Research and Development Labs - Do we need 2 Scopes?

My company is a small paint company - we are currently QS registered under the second edition. We have a research and development lab and also a Quality Control lab. The research and development lab is "over" the QC lab. Pertaining to 4.10.6 - do we need two laboratory scopes?? If not, do I need to include the QC lab in the scope?? Are there any rough examples of a lab scope out there somewhere? Our next audit is the end of March and we must meet the third edition by this audit.

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Dan Indish gave this link in response to my question similar to yours. It expounds on the 4.10.6 "Laboratory" but it is not completely clear to me. If you look to a couple of days ago in another thread, I asked a similar question - multiple areas defined as "lab."

I thought I was understanding this, but my MR just asked for instructions for all parts tested, and their respective standards - ASME, etc. However, the AIAG link does not state this specifically, i think.

Check the other threads in this area. Marc put in an expert's opinion, which seemed to clarify somewhat.

[Roger Eastin]

Does anyone have an example of a laboratory scope? Our metrology lab is being audited to QS, 3rd edition and needs a laboratory scope. By the way, why does QS specify that this must be a record as opposed to it being part of the lab manual? (I guess this reminds me of needing a form to fill out or something along those lines.) If anyone does, please mail it to roger.eastin@us.michelin.com. Thanks.

[Marc]

Marc put in an expert's opinion, which seemed to clarify somewhat.

Ummm, yeah... Sorry I didn't get back into this. I think there's another thread with this as a topic. I've been busy as heck so I'm missing things here and there.

OK - First - I don't consider myself an expert. I put this site up and what is now the forum as you know it because I am NOT an expert, but an 'apprentice'. I have lured folks like Don Winton, Roger Eastin, Jon Shaver, Bryon Simmons, and - well, a whole bunch of people here. We each have out contributions and we're all learning.

Now - If you want to see some examples of SCOPEs, see the thread on A2LA and such in the calibration forum (I think). For example, see An 'old' Thread

Now - Which question have we not answered?....

Oh -

Our metrology lab is being audited to QS, 3rd edition and needs a laboratory scope. By the way, why does QS specify that this must be a record as opposed to it being part of the lab manual? (I guess this reminds me of needing a form to fill out or something along those lines.)

Maybe I'm missing something in the interpretation. If it's in the Lab Manual, is the scope not documented? Is that not the requirement?

Also see 4.10.6 Supplier laboratory requirements - applicability - Lab thread in the 4.10 'section'.

[Roger Eastin]

Thanks for the threads (sounds like I'm a beatnik thanking you for some clothes that you gave me!). I would think that documenting a laboratory scope would be enough and maybe it is. I was just wondering why the QS manual states that it is a quality RECORD as opposed to a level 3 document that would be in a lab manual.

[Marc]

A somewhat related tidbit:

Subject: Re: Q: QS-9000 /Keskitalo/Shibley
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:21:26 -0600
From: ISO Standards Discussion

From: PPPQC
Subject: Re: Q: QS-9000 /Keskitalo/Shibley

After bringing this question to our training consultant (CMTC of California), it was distinctly related to testing facilities that had chemical or metallurgical in house laboratories. The Calibration reference is only to the equipment used to test the chemical or metallurgical instruments. The definition of the scope in the glossary simply puts the word "May Include" which is of course not one of the many "Shalls" or "Shall nots of QS. After asking the same question to our accrediting auditor (TUV Rhineland) it was agreed upon that calibration of inspection equipment is not categorically online with "Laboratory Calibration. Element 4:11 is distinctly describing the areas of auditable zones for standard inspection tool calibration.

Dan Shibley

[Marc]

Also see Laboratory Scope

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 22 March 2001).]