QMS International - Approval body. Accredited Or not?

[Monypennyuk]

I am a little Confused and i hope somebody else has come across the same issue.

We had our BSI audit yesterday, and altough it was only to ISO9001 we are on the TS16949 route, with a planned audit date april next year.

One thing that was pointed out on this audit, although no raised as an NCR, was:

7.4.1.2
Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the orgnaisation shall be third party registered to ISO900:2000 By AN ACCREDITED THIRD PARTY CERTIFICATION BODY

We are a spring manufatcures, and one of our material suppliers had supplied us with a certificate isued by a company called QMS international. My auditor told me that they were not accredited by UKAS or an equivelant body. Therfore we would not be able to use them for any automotive work, unless our customer gave specific approval. This is one of our top suppliers, and used for a large amount of material.

I have spoken to the supplier and they tell me that QMS are okay to use, and are approved by the INERNATIONAL ACCREDITAION COUNCIL to ISO/IEC 17011:2004... And they gave me a copy of this cert.

I am still finding it hard to understand... Are these Guys ok or not. I meam basically im being told that its like anyone being able to set up a company, go audit to iso and say Yup you meet the requirements, and hey heres a certificate from me to say so...

Im really confused, and i hope i have not confused you all to... But maybe someone can enlighted me ???

[Howard Atkins]

We have discussed thios before
seeCertificate issued by QMS International PLC in 2001 and it expires in 2011
IAF are the only genuine association for checking accreditation.

But please remember UKAS are not the only body that can give accreditation.
IF a company is based in USA it can be ANAB, if in Belgium BELCERT etc.

There is also an alternative for TS .4.1.2 Supplier Development (New December 2006)
In a ISO 9001 audit there would be no reason for giving a NC, this was advice

[harry]

Also look at: Non UKAS / EA / IAF accredited certification bodies - Certification company QMS

[tyker]

You do have an alternative. The TS 16949 sanctioned interpretations allow for second party audits. See:

http://www.iaob.org/showPage.php?tit...%20development

You will have trouble convincing a TS auditor to accept the "accreditation" described in your post. You'll also have difficulty convincing your supplier to switch from a cheap registrar like QMS to an expensive one such as BSI.

Added in edit. I've just re-read Howard's post and realise he got the interpretation in first.

[Colin]

In Reply to Parent Post by Monypennyuk

I am a little Confused and i hope somebody else has come across the same issue.

I am still finding it hard to understand... Are these Guys ok or not. I mean basically I'm being told that its like anyone being able to set up a company, go audit to iso and say Yup you meet the requirements, and hey here's a certificate from me to say so...

I'm really confused, and i hope i have not confused you all to... But maybe someone can enlighten me ???

I can understand your confusion - what you are seeing is perfectly legal in the UK (and probably most other countries). Not only can anyone set up and issue ISO 9001 certificates, you can also issue yourself with one!!

As suggested by tyker, why not go and audit them, or at least ask them for a copy of their quality manual so you can evaluate their system. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on whether the system is based around their business processes and properly reflects their organisation.

[Randy]

In Reply to Parent Post by tyker

You'll also have difficulty convincing your supplier to switch from a cheap registrar like QMS to an expensive one such as BSI.
[/I]

Expensive? Nawwwwwwwwww, never happen. Just less cheap

[somerqc]

I have to defend Randy on this one.

BSI is very competitive with the reputable registrars out there. We did not use BSI due to travel expenses issues (they did not have any auditors in our area at the time <2 years ago> so they had to charge for travel expenses), but, the rest of the pricing was in line with the other 3 we looked at.

Remember, if a registrar is way cheaper than another there is a reason!!

John

[Sidney Vianna]

In Reply to Parent Post by Monypennyuk

7.4.1.2
Unless otherwise specified by the customer, suppliers to the orgnaisation shall be third party registered to ISO900:2000 By AN ACCREDITED THIRD PARTY CERTIFICATION BODY

Technically, your supplier IS in compliance and you could challenge your auditor. The intent of the requirement is to force suppliers in the automotive supply chain to attain a credible certificate. However, it does not say that the supplier must have an accredited certificate from an CB accredited under an IAF signatory Accreditation Body.

So, certificates coming from a CB with a "non-traditional" (IAF recognized) accreditation satisfies the technical aspect of the requirement, but not the intent. Similarly, a non-accredited certificate coming from a traditionally accredited CB also satisfies the requirement quoted above. And there is at least one large CB in the US issuing a large number of unaccredited certificates, much to my ire. That is the subject of a specific thread.

For a list of IAF signatory AB's, point your browser to http://www.compad.com.au/clients/iaf...cles&artId=145