The Elsmar Cove Forum and Site Map The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 9001 - Quality Management Systems Standard


The Elsmar Cove Forum SideBar!
Monitor the Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
New Threads Feeds
RSS FeedRSS Feed
Sponsor Link










$ Contributor Forum Access
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's International Quality Services

Atul's Symphony Technologies

Dave Scott's Scott Quality Solutions

Praxiom Research Group


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality


All the Important Standards and Related Web Sites in the World
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11th June 2000, 10:08 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is online now
Your Elsmar Cove Host

Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Age: 59
 
Posts: 15,852
Thanks Given to Others: 1,892
Thanked 1,563 Times in 1,016 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 604
Karma: 11544
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Marc Send a message via Skype™ to Marc
I Say... Training Manuals for Work Stations Discussion

From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:35:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Training Manuals /Bartschenfeld/Scalies

From: "Charley Scalies"

> Bob Bartschenfeld asks:
> Our company is working on developing training manuals for workstations
> (i.e.: extrusion). These manuals are to be provided for each employee's use
> during training. We would like to be able to keep this as general as
> possible (no revision controls) yet we need to be able to reference
> controlled procedures.
>
> How have you folks addressed this issue of using training manuals that are
> not controlled without losing track of the specific procedural requirements.
>
> For example, we would like to ensure that all extrusion operators follow a
> prescribed procedure for cleaning out the extruder, but if this procedure is
> in the training manual and a change is made, not all operators will get the
> change. The other issue is that we want the manual and instructions to be
> easy for the trainee to carry around with them, so they use it.
>
> We are trying to get our system as paperless as possible (other than the
> training manuals). Even the training manuals have the potential to be
> paperless. Each operator has a computer at their workstation.
>
> Are there any suggestions on how to deal with this control issue?

Sounds to me like your training manuals are really to be used to a large degree as work instructions or workmanship standards, in which case they need to be controlled.

That does not mean, however, that every trainee needs to personally have one. You might have centralized, easy to reach paper copies - that reduces the number of pieces of paper that need to be controlled, or, as you indicated, they could be published and accessed electronically. Either way, it's important to remember that controlling information is more than knowing who has what information, but, more importantly, ensuring they know which is the correct information to use. So if you go paperless, be sure you have a system whereby the operators are informed or otherwise made aware that a requirement has changed.

Document control requirements can be summed up in 2 words. "Right There" They have to be Right AND Right There (i.e. readily available) If you do that, you have a system that works. If you don't, you don't.

You may have noticed that the new draft standard mandates fewer documented procedures. That, IMHO, is really a recognition that not all requirements are procedural in nature and that training plays a large part in what and how people are supposed to perform tasks. That should not be construed to mean that those requirements need not be documented. If it's important enough to do, then its important enough to document - and therefore control. For example, you might decide that machine operators have a demonstrated ability to safely and properly operate the particular machine and know, for example, how to make a raw bar of steel look like the finished print. (I couldn't imagine otherwise). That qualification requirement needs to be documented and controlled. The final call is always yours.

You need to find the most effective and cost efficient method that works for you.

Charley
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11th June 2000, 10:22 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is online now
Your Elsmar Cove Host

Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester, Ohio - USA
Age: 59
 
Posts: 15,852
Thanks Given to Others: 1,892
Thanked 1,563 Times in 1,016 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 604
Karma: 11544
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via AIM to Marc Send a message via Skype™ to Marc
Lurker

From: ISO Standards Discussion
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:04:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Training Manuals /Bartschenfeld/Kozenko

From: Write9000

> How have you folks addressed this issue of using training manuals that are
> not controlled without losing track of the specific procedural requirements.
>
> For example, we would like to ensure that all extrusion operators follow a
> prescribed procedure for cleaning out the extruder, but if this procedure is
> in the training manual and a change is made, not all operators will get the
> change. The other issue is that we want the manual and instructions to be
> easy for the trainee to carry around with them, so they use it.

I had a similar situation and here's what worked for me:

Regardless of the work procedure's revision level, the current procedure for (say) "cleaning out the extruder" is pretty much always going to be called, "The Current Procedure for Cleaning Out The Extruder." It might be Rev. 1 dated June 5, 2000 one day, and Rev. 2 dated June 6, 2000 the next day, but everyone should know what you're talking about when you just say "the current procedure for..."

SAVE THIS FOR YOUR OWN BOOK:

Next, guarantee yourself at least one weekly migraine headache by using actual work procedures integrally with the training documentation (In other words, a separate, identical set, one for "floor use" and one for "training use"). That way, any rapidly made QMS procedural documentation correction made in a hurry right before (say) a Registrar's surveillance audit will surprise everyone at how rapidly and efficiently it can be accomplished, and everyone will be a hero right up until the Registrar's auditor finds that the procedure in the training documentation is lagging behind, usually by at least one "Revision Level" and sometimes, more than one Revision Level in cases where that particular training session hasn't been conducted in some extended period of time.

Or, if you dislike migraines as much as I do, use "the current procedure for..." in all of your training documentation, and ensure access to "the current procedure for..." during training (paper, paperless, etc.).

(Hint: It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to define and document the words you're going to use to describe "this procedure" or "that procedure," not for everyone's use, but for those who handle the QMS documentation, because it's an almost certainty that if you don't "control" those words, you'll end up with one reference that says "Extruder Cleaning" and another that says "Cleaning the Extruder" and another that says... and so on. And you want to keep the whole choir on the "same page" so to speak ;o)

David Kozenko

In your training documentation, never say anything except: "Use the current
Procedure for cleaning out the extruder.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 9001 - Quality Management Systems Standard

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors and 1 Unregistered Guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Auditing Work Stations where Poka Yoke has been done - What to look for? kedarg6500 Manufacturing and Related Processes 9 30th October 2009 11:34 AM
Training Documents - Training manuals for the 5 core tools Edward Nell Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 1 19th August 2008 08:34 AM
Cultural Adaptation of Manuals Production Manuals and Work Instructions blijstift Documentation Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 4 7th December 2007 01:19 PM
5S Procedure - Does anyone have a procedure covering 5S for Work Stations? jkittle Preventive Action and Continuous Improvement 7 8th June 2007 03:11 PM
Week 5 Student Discussion - Work Standards Steve Prevette City University - MC 550 Operational Management 8 10th March 2005 11:31 AM



The time now is 04:27 PM. All times are GMT -4.
The time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



   

All Y'All Come Back Now, Y' Hear?

Made With A Mac! FreeBSD OS Powered by Apache!
Using php4 Forums provided and maintained by Marc Smith Database by MySQL

FAIR USE and CORRECTNESS NOTICE: This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in our efforts to advance understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and social justice issues, etc. We believe herein constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ If you wish to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the copyright owner. In addition, I do not guarantee the correctness of the content. The risk of using content from the Elsmar Cove web site and forums remains with the user/visitor.

Responsibility Statement: Each person is responsible for anything they post in the Elsmar Cove forum. Neither I, Marc Timothy Smith, nor any of the forum Moderators, are responsible for the content of posts people make. Liability for post content resides with the poster as does interpretation and/or acceptance and/or use of advice by the reader.

Complaints: If you have a complaint with a post in a forum discussion thread, including Content in general, fighting, flaming, copyright infringement, defamation and/or 'slander', please use the 'Report This Post Report This Post Button button which appears at the top of every post in every thread.

Site courtesy of:
Marc Timothy Smith - Cayman Business Systems, 8466 Lesourdsville-West Chester Road, West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929 - USA
(513) 341-6272

To contact me, click the Google Voice link below, enter Your Name and Your Phone Number and Google will ring your phone and connect you for free!

The Elsmar Cove Web Site is *CopyFree*
no new posts