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View Poll Results: Not sequentially following steps is an audit finding.
If there is evidence, "Yes" it's a finding 4 22.22%
Without more knowledge, I say "No", not a finding 1 5.56%
I would definitely dig deeper before any citation 12 66.67%
Given the limited information, no way to accurately say 4 22.22%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 17th April 2008, 10:52 AM
grego79's Avatar
grego79 grego79 is offline
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Posts: 7
Not sequentially following steps in a work instruction

Audit scenario...

After reviewing assembly work instructions you find that the operator is performing assembly operation steps #5 & #6 out of sequence. You ask the operator "why would you arbitrarily decide to change work instructions steps" and they respond by saying - "It doesn't matter what steps you do as long as it all gets done."

Just looking for feedback and comments of how you would address this issue.


Grego

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  #2  
Old 17th April 2008, 11:00 AM
Randy's Avatar
Randy Randy is offline
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Posts: 8,245
Re: 9001:2000 Auditor Finding or Not!?

What are the requirements?

Are the requirements being met?

What is the definition of NC?

ISO 9000:2005

3.6.2
nonconformity
non-fulfilment of a requirement (3.1.2)

3.1.2
requirement
need or expectation that is stated, generally implied or obligatory

NOTE 1 “Generally implied” means that it is custom or common practice for the organization (3.3.1), its customers (3.3.5) and other interested parties (3.3.7), that the need or expectation under consideration is implied.

NOTE 2 A qualifier can be used to denote a specific type of requirement, e.g. product requirement, quality management
requirement, customer requirement.

NOTE 3 A specified requirement is one that is stated, for example in a document (3.7.2).

NOTE 4 Requirements can be generated by different interested parties (3.3.7).

NOTE 5 This definition differs from that provided in 3.12.1 of ISO/IEC Directives, Part 2:2004.

3.12.1
requirement
expression in the content of a document conveying criteria to be fulfilled if compliance with the document is to be claimed and from which no deviation is permitted


Use the Standard for your answer. When you use the Standard there is nothing left to haggle over. Now as to CA and cause, that is not the auditor's problem.

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  #3  
Old 17th April 2008, 11:03 AM
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BradM BradM is offline
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Posts: 5,691
Re: 9001:2000 Auditor Finding or Not!?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by grego79 View Post

Audit scenario...

After reviewing assembly work instructions you find that the operator is performing assembly operation steps #5 & #6 out of sequence. You ask the operator "why would you arbitrarily decide to change work instructions steps" and they respond by saying - "It doesn't matter what steps you do as long as it all gets done."

Just looking for feedback and comments of how you would address this issue.


Grego
Hello Grego

Is the operator correct? Does it matter?

I would be interested in the situation. If the work instruction was written with a sequential order, someone thought it was important and it should be followed. The operator(s) needs to be trained. If it truly does not matter, the procedure should be rewritten (doesn't matter).

Added Moderator Note: I revised the title for better applicability to the subject. If it is not correct or needs to be changed, please let me or another moderator know

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Last edited by BradM; 17th April 2008 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Added Moderator Note
  #4  
Old 17th April 2008, 11:10 AM
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GStough GStough is offline
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Posts: 1,105
Re: 9001:2000 Auditor Finding or Not!?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by BradM View Post

Added Moderator Note: I revised the title for better applicability to the subject. If it is not correct or needs to be changed, please let me or another auditor know


Or another moderator....

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  #5  
Old 17th April 2008, 11:12 AM
BradM's Avatar
BradM BradM is offline
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Posts: 5,691
Re: 9001:2000 Auditor Finding or Not!?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by GStough View Post



Or another moderator....


For the love of everything.. please don't let another auditor know. Make them figure it out on their own.

Ok.... back to the ranch.

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  #6  
Old 17th April 2008, 11:20 AM
Coury Ferguson's Avatar
Coury Ferguson Coury Ferguson is offline
Moderator here to help

 
 
Posts: 4,320
Re: Not sequentially following steps in a work instruction

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by grego79 View Post

Audit scenario...

After reviewing assembly work instructions you find that the operator is performing assembly operation steps #5 & #6 out of sequence. You ask the operator "why would you arbitrarily decide to change work instructions steps" and they respond by saying - "It doesn't matter what steps you do as long as it all gets done."

Just looking for feedback and comments of how you would address this issue.


Grego
Does it improve the results (Time, Costs, etc)? If so, change the documentation, in my opinion.

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  #7  
Old 17th April 2008, 11:26 AM
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somerqc somerqc is offline
Involved - Posts

 
 
Posts: 435
Re: Not sequentially following steps in a work instruction

As an internal auditor, my first question is "does it really matter?". Next, is it potentially a more efficient way of completing the task? Doesn't matter? Change instructions to indicate that. Is it better? Change it.

If it does matter and isn't better - determine if systemic or localized. May be a personnel issue rather than a system issue.



John
  #8  
Old 17th April 2008, 11:33 AM
Stijloor's Avatar
Stijloor Stijloor is offline
Super Moderator

 
 
Posts: 14,579
Re: Not sequentially following steps in a work instruction

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by grego79 View Post

Audit scenario...

After reviewing assembly work instructions you find that the operator is performing assembly operation steps #5 & #6 out of sequence. You ask the operator "why would you arbitrarily decide to change work instructions steps" and they respond by saying - "It doesn't matter what steps you do as long as it all gets done."

Just looking for feedback and comments of how you would address this issue.


Grego
Grego,

Simple approach:

1. Interview other operators.
2. Verify impact of the out-of-sequence operations.
3a. If no impact, no action required.
3b. If impact, write nonconformity report.

Sometimes, in an effort to capture the process/activities, work instructions are written in an unnecessarily complex/detailed manner.

Stijloor.
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